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1/2 1600 thread ONLY

mspina

Active Member
From what I can tell, this is the only remaining 1600 thread with life. Anyone know of great 1600 classified spots or simply wait here on RDC? Specifically 2 seat
 

mspina

Active Member
Looks like a big turn out for rage already, last I saw was 32ish pre-entries. What series does everyone look to run outside of Mexico?
 

Pee Wee

Well-Known Member
From what I can tell, this is the only remaining 1600 thread with life. Anyone know of great 1600 classified spots or simply wait here on RDC? Specifically 2 seat
Is mspina Mike Spina? Originally from Vegas?
 

Robin Hood

Well-Known Member
I'm going to continue this thread here so I don't hijack Snore's thread any more.

MORE is looking into no restrictor on two seat cars and a two seat restrictor on single seat cars, would make them closer then adding 1mm to each restrictor. There should be no reason to switch platforms to stay competitive, some of us don’t want a LC, especially when they cost 8K just to convert.
How do you know this will make them equal? I'm not saying I want to spend the money to convert either, but it would seem that the overall cost to race would go down with the LC motor. However, I do feel that the LC motor cost should be beared by those that decide to switch. Allowing a new motor and making changes to the HC motor just drives up the cost for everyone. Even though the cost have gone up, 1600 seems to be an affordable and very durable platform. These cars can take a beating and still make it to the finish line.

Spending a small fortune on racing doesn't seem to bring me happiness, so I bought a 1600 car to stay in the game. The total cost to race is very important to me so when I see classes changing motors or the rules it makes me want to stay away. With that said, I do like the pump fuel option, but it should not be done at a cost to those who choose not to change. Pump gas is a lot less expensive, and if I don't use it all then at least I can use it in something else. I've thrown away way to much race gas in the past.
 

snoreracer

Well-Known Member
I'm going to continue this thread here so I don't hijack Snore's thread any more.



How do you know this will make them equal? I'm not saying I want to spend the money to convert either, but it would seem that the overall cost to race would go down with the LC motor. However, I do feel that the LC motor cost should be beared by those that decide to switch. Allowing a new motor and making changes to the HC motor just drives up the cost for everyone. Even though the cost have gone up, 1600 seems to be an affordable and very durable platform. These cars can take a beating and still make it to the finish line.

Spending a small fortune on racing doesn't seem to bring me happiness, so I bought a 1600 car to stay in the game. The total cost to race is very important to me so when I see classes changing motors or the rules it makes me want to stay away. With that said, I do like the pump fuel option, but it should not be done at a cost to those who choose not to change. Pump gas is a lot less expensive, and if I don't use it all then at least I can use it in something else. I've thrown away way to much race gas in the past.
Here is what will happen if the single seaters get a 24mm plate , they will dominate the class and here is why the venture size of a solex 30 pic carburetor is 24.1 mm , that is in the rules. The 24mm plate would allow it to flow more air as the carburetor is limited to 24.1MM . taking the plate off the 2 seat would give them more air flow but not that much as the single seat. This rule change would make the single seat high compression engine the fastest in the class with a 2 seat low comp next then the single seat low comp and 2 seat high comp close at 3rd
 

Robin Hood

Well-Known Member
Here is what will happen if the single seaters get a 24mm plate , they will dominate the class and here is why the venture size of a solex 30 pic carburetor is 24.1 mm , that is in the rules. The 24mm plate would allow it to flow more air as the carburetor is limited to 24.1MM . taking the plate off the 2 seat would give them more air flow but not that much as the single seat. This rule change would make the single seat high compression engine the fastest in the class with a 2 seat low comp next then the single seat low comp and 2 seat high comp close at 3rd
Thank for the reply! So how do you make the LC and HC equal? I agree that all the guys with the HC motor shouldn't have to spend money to play catch up.

Just for the record, I am not a fan of 2 seaters getting a helper and more power...just never made sense to me.
 
Something I haven't heard many people mention is that if you pull these restrictor plates out you essentially have a limited buggy motor my limited buggy has hit 8200 rpm at Glen Helen if these high comp engines started seeing 7500 plus rpm's on a regular basis in the dezert races you'll be going through top ends every single race the valve train just can't keep up Last time fat did a top end only on our dezert motor I believe it cost us some around $2500. We were going through the top end every 2 to 3 races and rebuilding the motor once a season this is the reason low comp became so popular high comp engines were just too high maintenance by pulling the restricted plate you just doubled the top and maintenance in my opinion.
 

snoreracer

Well-Known Member
Thank for the reply! So how do you make the LC and HC equal? I agree that all the guys with the HC motor shouldn't have to spend money to play catch up.

Just for the record, I am not a fan of 2 seaters getting a helper and more power...just never made sense to me.
To make them more equal is a hard call , my option is the high comp engines were where we needed to be and restrict the low comps , but now that 70% of the class is low comp they are steering the class not to make a change . the reason the single seat gets less power is weight
 

snoreracer

Well-Known Member
Something I haven't heard many people mention is that if you pull these restrictor plates out you essentially have a limited buggy motor my limited buggy has hit 8200 rpm at Glen Helen if these high comp engines started seeing 7500 plus rpm's on a regular basis in the dezert races you'll be going through top ends every single race the valve train just can't keep up Last time fat did a top end only on our dezert motor I believe it cost us some around $2500. We were going through the top end every 2 to 3 races and rebuilding the motor once a season this is the reason low comp became so popular high comp engines were just too high maintenance by pulling the restricted plate you just doubled the top and maintenance in my opinion.
8200 rpm is impressive i had a 7000 rpm chip in mine and never hit it , I did get some inside info that some of the low comp guys are running over 6500 rpm and they are done after one race
 
To make them more equal is a hard call , my option is the high comp engines were where we needed to be and restrict the low comps , but now that 70% of the class is low comp they are steering the class not to make a change . the reason the single seat gets less power is weight
I totally understand the frustration we all spent about $10000 to get these Competitive high compression engines and now it's going to cost another small fortune to convert it to a low compression motor however I'm probly one of the rare ones that feel the low comp is what this class needed As time goes on the prices are dropping for the conversions and major performance even stepped up in a big way and sells a do-it-yourself kit that doesn't cost much more than a top end rebuild from any of the major engine builders.
 
I don't think it's been brought up in a while but what about equal weights for single and two seat cars 1900lbs with driver and rider? Or something of that sort. Then we would only have to worry about equaling 2 engines versus the 4 right now. Just ideas i know its all been mowed over time and time again.
 

Jeffers909

Well-Known Member
Here is what will happen if the single seaters get a 24mm plate , they will dominate the class and here is why the venture size of a solex 30 pic carburetor is 24.1 mm , that is in the rules. The 24mm plate would allow it to flow more air as the carburetor is limited to 24.1MM . taking the plate off the 2 seat would give them more air flow but not that much as the single seat. This rule change would make the single seat high compression engine the fastest in the class with a 2 seat low comp next then the single seat low comp and 2 seat high comp close at 3rd
So increasing the air flow before the Venturi 2.5mm in the single seat compared to 6mm in the 2 seat is gonna somehow make the single seat dominant???? If airflow before the Venturi doesn't matter then why the hell is it called a PIC 30 with a 30mm butterfly why wouldn't they just make it a PIC24 with a 24mm butterfly??? MORE TALK and SPECULATION trying to steer the class. I was thinking that taking the plate out of the 2 seat was gonna be too big of an advantage (6mm increase in airflow)...So we did a real world test on a 2 seat Bunderson this past weekend with 24mm plate and 30mm plate. Running no restrictor plate would open up a whole bunch of other issues including clearance issues.

The 2 seat HC with 30mm plate came alive 0-45mph but with the cam the motor had it couldn't take advantage of the additional air flow top end. With a cam change it was pretty clear it would outperform that driver's LC motor. He said we would not hesitate to switch back to his HC motor with a cam change versus his LC which is not what we want for the future of the class. No this was not the "holy grail" Major's LC motor but a good motor.

I will be doing another test with a HC motor in a top single seat within the next couple days. A the moment It looks like a 3-4mm increase on both plates is going to be the proper adjustment. Not making any decisions until testing with the single seat this week.
 

offroadracer516

Well-Known Member
Here is what will happen if the single seaters get a 24mm plate , they will dominate the class and here is why the venture size of a solex 30 pic carburetor is 24.1 mm , that is in the rules. The 24mm plate would allow it to flow more air as the carburetor is limited to 24.1MM . taking the plate off the 2 seat would give them more air flow but not that much as the single seat. This rule change would make the single seat high compression engine the fastest in the class with a 2 seat low comp next then the single seat low comp and 2 seat high comp close at 3rd
I still don't see a single seat high comp without a plate doing 95mph like some of these low comps are now doing. I don't see it at all. 1mm isn't enough Kenny. Cody is on the right Track. Keep testing and give us real rules.
 

J BomBer

Well-Known Member
So increasing the air flow before the Venturi 2.5mm in the single seat compared to 6mm in the 2 seat is gonna somehow make the single seat dominant???? If airflow before the Venturi doesn't matter then why the hell is it called a PIC 30 with a 30mm butterfly why wouldn't they just make it a PIC24 with a 24mm butterfly??? MORE TALK and SPECULATION trying to steer the class. I was thinking that taking the plate out of the 2 seat was gonna be too big of an advantage (6mm increase in airflow)...So we did a real world test on a 2 seat Bunderson this past weekend with 24mm plate and 30mm plate. Running no restrictor plate would open up a whole bunch of other issues including clearance issues.

The 2 seat HC with 30mm plate came alive 0-45mph but with the cam the motor had it couldn't take advantage of the additional air flow top end. With a cam change it was pretty clear it would outperform that driver's LC motor. He said we would not hesitate to switch back to his HC motor with a cam change versus his LC which is not what we want for the future of the class. No this was not the "holy grail" Major's LC motor but a good motor.

I will be doing another test with a HC motor in a top single seat within the next couple days. A the moment It looks like a 3-4mm increase on both plates is going to be the proper adjustment. Not making any decisions until testing with the single seat this week.
thank you for doing some actual testing before making a decision instead of basing it on opinions from builders.
 
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