1400 / 1450 class rules for HDRA

J Prich

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Rather than perpetuate the same dead horse debate, I'll just submit my vote for what Dezert_Nerd has suggested. In my opinion, that's the ideal route.
 

DoitforBMoore

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Make the rules whatever you want next year. Im smoking everyone what ever class im put in!!! SHAA SHAAAA!!!!!

Jk


I did like this one tho

1450=cabbed and framed trucks that are leafsprung, midsize run max V6, fullsize run max V8.
1400= cabbed and framed trucks, Everything else is unlimited.
NO FIBERGLASS TRUCKS
 

dezert_nerd

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The number of leaf sprung trucks racing these days is shrinking fast. Not because they feel outclassed by the linked trucks, but because links are getting cheaper, easier to install, and they work way better. Splitting the class by leaf/link will make it tough to sustain 1450 for very long in my opinion.

If you are worried about people NOT racing due to being outclassed, the poor kid who saved up for links isn't going to want to race against Jerry, Jono, AZ McFlury, etc. There are "Race" pre-runners out there now, there are true 1400 trucks out there, and there is the rest of us. Links shouldn't mean i have to race against the "Race" 1400 trucks.

You wouldn't split the classes by I-beams and A-arms, why split it by rear suspension? Both can be fast but one really works better and isn't that prohibitive cost wise now.

My 2 pennies. Link's doesn't put us true budget, weekend warrior, pre-runner that we just want to race....anywhere near as capable as all other trucks with links.
There is a big difference when trying to compare I-beams to A-arms as Links to leafs. 1, beams and a-arms can achieve the same amount of travel. therefore there would not be a need to split the class anyways. 2,The reason leafs and links have always had a split is because you can not achieve 28 inches of travel with leaf springs unlike links. Yes i agree links are always getting cheaper but that doesnt mean Leaf-sprung trucks will all of a sudden dissapear. 3, just because links are cheaper doesnt mean installing them is as well. theres a lot of work and Mulah that goes into linking a truck, like said by Jprich.
 

tacorunner87

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Just a thought. Why not make 1450 a sportsman class and 1400 a pro class like they have been in the past. Then if you want to give leaf sprung trucks a class like 1500 that MDR was planning? No need to over complicate things.
 

Dirtracer 619

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Hey read from another post how about letting the1450's run all laps

not limited
 

dezert_nerd

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Hey read from another post how about letting the1450's run all laps

not limited
honestly why dont more organizations make all classes run the same amount of laps? If they can do it in baja then hell why not do it in a lapped race?
 

J Prich

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Just speculating, but I'm guessing part of the issue revolves around having volunteers man checkpoints, etc. The extra couple of hours tacked on the final time is probably the root of the issue. Hard enough getting folks to do a 8-12 hour day on some of the longer races. I'd think that shouldn't be a problem for the 300 or less type races but I'm guessing 400+ miles in limited classes is going to make long nights even longer for volunteer courseworkers.
 

Dirt Yota

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As a leaf spring 1450 racer I will chime in on this links debate from my own views on it.

When it comes to racing with leaf springs to me, its hard to want to go out and race against people like jono, azmixer,unsicker(sp?) etc.. when you KNOW YOU DONT HAVE A CHANCE! The class split is awesome and would probably bring out more people then some might think. So yes I agree with the 'outclassed' statement since I feel the same way.

What did I do about getting spanked in every race? Bought links/shocks/Dirt tech rear end etc... and having them installed here pretty soon.

I would LOVE to stay leaf sprung and duke it out with my fellow leaf springers, but that's not really where racing is today IMO. If you want to have a chance at winning(1450) you pretty much need links, unless its a split class.

I almost feel bad about the way Jono was treated after BAP this year. He has a perfectly legal truck. Is it stupid rediculous? yes. But its still legal. If you want to win do you have to build something of that caliber? no, but it will be hard to compete with people like him.

Anyway that's my .02 on the subject. I've made my decision with moving on to links which I'm very excited about!
 

DoitforBMoore

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Just speculating, but I'm guessing part of the issue revolves around having volunteers man checkpoints, etc. The extra couple of hours tacked on the final time is probably the root of the issue. Hard enough getting folks to do a 8-12 hour day on some of the longer races. I'd think that shouldn't be a problem for the 300 or less type races but I'm guessing 400+ miles in limited classes is going to make long nights even longer for volunteer courseworkers.
I think most of the problem is the coarses turn into grave yards... Most 1450 trucks arnt crazy fast. Only about a handfull would complete all the laps on time. More than half cant fininsh on time now.
 

stockprerunner96

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I agree there should be a split. Links/ leaf split = No way. I run links, but with a stock motor, I find myself battling with v8 leafs. Do I enjoy getting lapped by someone in my class even when Im having a flawless race, nope! Do I find it helpful to race against people faster than me, o yea. To an extent. Follow their lines, mimick the faster guys. Obviously they are doing something right. With no split now, I feel that its turning away some lower budget racers. Yes its cool to sail the dyke and look sick gnar for the crowd, but for how long will people pay $350 entries to sail 1 jump, with no chance of winning? Why not go to the desert with a group of friends, set a course up, have someone drop a flag, and see who makes it to the first turn first. Same adrenaline rush. Rather than basing it primarily on vehicles, why not set it up more as a 1450pro, and a 1450 amatuer class. Anyone can run amateur, but if you smoke 98% of the field, the other racers can protest you out of the class and bump you up to 1450 pro. There would have to be a way of monitoring this, otherwise anytime someone in 1450A got beat, they would protest. Maybe have a majority rules type deal. Thats how it was back when I raced mx. The only problem in this now is mainly the $$ side of things, seeing that pro entires cost more. If you got bumped up in class and had to pay more to race, that would definitly turn racers away as well. Is this the answer to all our problems, no way. But this is my .02 on a way to split classes, that would incorporate a drivers' vehicle, and driver him/herself into the equation. Which is what seems fair to me. Yyeeehhaawww!
 

AZmxer

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Its been said soooo many times, why make more classes to dilute entries even more? 1450- Sportsman leafs, links, 4-6-8 cylinders 1400/Heavy Metal, "Max Metal" , Extreme metal(lol) basically a catch-all 'Pro truck class for trucks that don't quite fit in TT,8, 7200 . If you want rules then run a spec class. If your like me I had no plans of racing my truck other than Whiplash Snowflake here in AZ once a year. My truck was built as a daily driver for someone else who never planned on racing, so it is a bastard truck that does not conform to any of the other spec class truck rules.Should of known better after racing moto, rhinos, for 15 years!! My truck does not fit into any spec class, so we run 1450 and HM. When we did the SNORE season we would of loved to race in HM but I would have been racing myself. Thats what happened to Unsicker everyone cried and he raced the MINT solo in HM. Thats not racing. I tried to get the fast guys to run HM but fell on deaf ears. I am way out gunned against Jono, Unsicker, Jerry,Rosebaum, but it sure feels great when you win or do well against a field like that. Or like Brian said above you win a 1450 race you are automatically bumped up to 1400. Like I said nobody will ever be happy. I don't envy the job of a racing org or director or class rep. Good luck and we will be out in 12' to race a few desert races after a full season of short course racing this year
 

maxyedor

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MDR "Gentleman's agreement" worked great for years, TT's were 1400 legal and not a single one ever entered 1400, people who raced 1450 with LS6s, 4" bypasses and wazzoo suspension got heckled and then moved up to 1400, nobody complained. People are constantly complaining about SNORE and MORE's 1400/1450 rules, what's that say?
 

Good Knight Racing

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Im going to oppose this. 1400/1450 are both somewhat of a weekend warrior class. I say we go by what MORE has set up.
1450=cabbed and framed trucks that are leafsprung, midsize run max V6, fullsize run max V8.
1400= cabbed and framed trucks, Everything else is unlimited.
NO FIBERGLASS TRUCKS
If we run it this way, then we don't have people running class 8 trucks and TT's in 1400 making it fair for everyone.

I am with you on the same set of rules I think it works out good there is a mix of like minded vech some are 30 k and others 100k sure but they are closer in the end with prep and driving skills. I think both 1400 and 1450 are sportsman classes if you want a pro class build a vech that fits the rules. I dont need payback to see were I stack up just look at the lap times and it tells the story. Pro just leads to sandbaggers and complaining.02
 

Tom_Willis

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The 1450 restriction to leaf springs means no back-halfing and no exotic engine changes. That opens up the class to ex-stock full & mini classes that are sitting in somebody's back yard. There was over 30 7s trucks at the SCORE Primm race a few years ago, some of them are still around. If you dig out that old truck and spend a small amount of money getting up to 1450 standards, and can enter for the less expensive sportsman entry fee, it's way cheaper than racing 1400. And the casual observer can tell the difference between leafs and links. Since there is no real factory money in 7s/8s anymore then there's no reason to deal with the rules that force you to lay down the rear shocks or keep the stock bumper. Keep the entry fees and the lap count as low as practical and there will be some real racing in that class. If your truck only has to last 4 laps you're pace (and the competitions') will be quicker. I spent years spotting for MDR, and watched the jeepspeed guys get faster and faster without increasing the travel numbers.
 

masta-t

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MDR rules speak for themselves as most successful. I for one would be far less likely to race if i have to pay more, since I have links and a stock 302, because someone thinks that only those two things make you win races.


Also wanted to add that I, and i'm sure others, greatly appreciate HDRA asking the racers to help shape the rules for the class.
 

Kartman

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My possibly unwelcome suggestions

1450 Steel cabs, functional factory style doors (Lambo and Delorean style doors OK). Everything else open. Sportsman class, reduced fee, trophies only
1400/Mega Metal/Whatever you want to call it. Steel cabs, functional factory style doors (Lambo and Delorean style doors OK). Everything else open. Pro class, pro fees, cash payout.
 

maxyedor

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What about Kaiser Daren style forward sliding doors, and suicide doors?

Can't edit my first post, so here's another one, there was a message at the top asking me to post more anyway.




As a leaf spring 1450 racer I will chime in on this links debate from my own views on it.

When it comes to racing with leaf springs to me, its hard to want to go out and race against people like jono, azmixer,unsicker(sp?) etc.. when you KNOW YOU DONT HAVE A CHANCE! The class split is awesome and would probably bring out more people then some might think. So yes I agree with the 'outclassed' statement since I feel the same way.

What did I do about getting spanked in every race? Bought links/shocks/Dirt tech rear end etc... and having them installed here pretty soon.

I would LOVE to stay leaf sprung and duke it out with my fellow leaf springers, but that's not really where racing is today IMO. If you want to have a chance at winning(1450) you pretty much need links, unless its a split class.

I almost feel bad about the way Jono was treated after BAP this year. He has a perfectly legal truck. Is it stupid rediculous? yes. But its still legal. If you want to win do you have to build something of that caliber? no, but it will be hard to compete with people like him.

Anyway that's my .02 on the subject. I've made my decision with moving on to links which I'm very excited about!

All of your issues were perfectly addressed by the MDR rules and "Gentleman's Agreement", I'm just quoting you, since you seem to have brought up everybody's complaints in one post.

You are only racing against Jono/McMurry/Unsicker etc with SNORE's silly rules. They would be heckled mercilessly if they entered 1450 in MDR (Many have been in the Superstition series), the only way to shut up the hecklers is to move up to 1400. It's happened more times than I can remember. Most of the V8 guys in 1450 sent all their money on the motor and links and can't afford to prep the truck, so they DNF anyway.

I don't remember Jono catching much flack for entering 1450 at BAP, other than people using him (and others) as an example of why the combined class is dumb.

No chance with leaf springs against the V8 and links crowd? Helton dominated the 2006 1450 points championship with leaf springs and a 22re. Had he been able to run a similar season every year, he could easily have won in 07, 08, and possibly 09. 2010 is hard to say, because Sunds was leading, and also one of the few regularly racing, but I think Helton could have beat him. That could have been a lea sprung champion in the biggest 1450 series, racing against v8s, for 5 years in a row. Unfortunately his 07 season was cut short, so we'll never really know how far he could have gone. When 1450ORG was going on, AJ was first or second in points with a very mild truck on leafs with a 22re. Herrara had half the motor of the "big guys" and leafs, yet still won all sorts of races.

MORE has had the same class split for years, and only started attracting racers when MDR disappeared after the California 200, MDR had more 1400/1450 entries in that single race than MORE used to get all year. So who's being attracted by the class split?

1450 was created as a "catch all" class for people who want to build a truck with fun as a priority, but also want to race it. Wazzoo 4-bangers that run on race gas and need a rebuild every 1000 miles, yet only put out the same power as a junk-yard LS aren't fun. Building a truck to maximize class rules, but that can't really go bomb around Glamis anymore isn't fun. Replacing main leafs every single race when you could link it and not touch it again for a full season isn't fun. 1400 was created when there became a clear need for a "faster" class that 1450 racers could grow into. Most guys in the 14xx classes can't afford the $30-50k it takes to race a full season and go for a championship, if they could, they'd build trucks that fit in one of the other more restrictive classes, instead they build trucks that are fun, and race for bragging rights more than anything. Nobody wants to brag that they beat a shoe-string budget home-built truck with their Geiser TT, so it doesn't happen.
 

jowoog

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I like the part about engines, midsize, max v6 (ok i get it ) full size, max v8 ( is there something bigger ? )
 
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