1600 Motor Shootout........and Dyno Numbers

Hartmut & Wolfram

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“GIESE IS BACK”
Bob Giese, founder and Chief Mechanic of GIESE RACING ENGINES (GRE) since 1985, is back on the leading edge of engine building. For the past six months he has been working on a 1-2-5/1600cc development program. Confident that his work has produced a high level of success, he invited owners of engines built by his competitors, [Majors, Wiks, Fat] to do an engine shoot-out at the GRE facility in Murrieta, Ca. The competition started at 8:30am. The Majors and Fat engines were of the 1/1600cc configuration. The 1/1600cc engines were run back to back within a 1 ½ hour time span so as to not be affected by weather change. The 2/1600cc configuration was run later in the day. Each engine was tested on a water brake dyno from 3000 to 6000 @ 500 RPM intervals. The results were consistent with Bob’s expectations; the GRE engine out performed the competition by up to 15% across most of the of the power band. For further information and to discuss how GRE can help improve your engines performance, contact Bob Giese @ 951.894.4177

See Attached Dyno sheet.
 

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JAM 1600

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Very interesting data ! Was a rep. from both FAT and MAJOR present while these test were performed ? :eek:
 

Hartmut & Wolfram

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Very interesting data ! Was a rep. from both FAT and MAJOR present while these test were performed ? :eek:
Only the respective owners of the competitors engines were present.

I can provide contact information if needed.
 

Tipracer

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ok so was this the 1-1600 or the 2-16...or is this a average of all the runs?
 

ASHCRAFT

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A couple of questions. Are we looking at #s from the single or two seat vehicles? What condition were all the motors in? for example were all the motors fresh with zero race time? Also what angles were the axles strapped down to?
 

offroadracer516

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Sorry but i dont buy it you can only get so much power out of a legal 1600cc motor.. 15% is a lot more power...
 
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That is impossible, FAT motors make 105 Hp not 63.9 - at least that is what I have read here.

One thing for sure his Dyno numbers are in the right range for a 1600 +/- 65 Hp.
 

ASHCRAFT

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That is impossible, FAT motors make 105 Hp not 63.9 - at least that is what I have read here.

One thing for sure his Dyno numbers are in the right range for a 1600 +/- 65 Hp.
LOL! Mine makes 89hp accroding to fats Dyno. Not sure on my Major motor but they both have areas where they stand out. Raw grunt low end power goes to Major and the Fat pulls harder up top. Just my opinion from personal expierences.
 

Hartmut & Wolfram

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That is impossible, FAT motors make 105 Hp not 63.9 - at least that is what I have read here.

One thing for sure his Dyno numbers are in the right range for a 1600 +/- 65 Hp.
If a Fat motor makes 105 hp, but his dyno numbers are in the right range why is the fat motor so far out of the right range?

I dont understand?
 

Hartmut & Wolfram

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SO the info is a little biased. The GRE motor was Fresh and Major motor was fresh. Just trying to get all the facts. Thanks
No problem trying to be honest as well by owning up to the milage on the fat motor.
 

JAM 1600

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ok cool...Fat had aprox 300 miles on it according to the owner and Majors was fresh.
I think they should all be equal ( as in fresh ) to make a fair comparison and I think all of the actual engine builders should be present as well. I know these engine builders do not build each and every engine identical as sometimes customers have a preference and or budget they work within.Not every motor has JE pistons , ceramic lifters, etc etc. Some of the engines are older designs that the customer has freshened up before a race.This is why I say the only true way to do this is to have each engine builder bring up their engine themselves and watch the dyno test and then compare the results. I am not defending any of these builders as I build my own but I am sure they would agree on what I have said.
 

Hartmut & Wolfram

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I think they should all be equal ( as in fresh ) to make a fair comparison and I think all of the actual engine builders should be present as well. I know these engine builders do not build each and every engine identical as sometimes customers have a preference and or budget they work within.Not every motor has JE pistons , ceramic lifters, etc etc. Some of the engines are older designs that the customer has freshened up before a race.This is why I say the only true way to do this is to have each engine builder bring up their engine themselves and watch the dyno test and then compare the results. I am not defending any of these builders as I build my own but I am sure they would agree on what I have said.
Yep....just trying to get some feed back I am not the builder just posting on behalf of him.....you also need to consider that all dynos give different readings as well he did dyno all these engines back to back on one dyno.

I will tell you this he built our type 4 class 5 unlimited engine that was originally a different builder and it runs very well compared to before.
 

9rocky

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Yep....just trying to get some feed back I am not the builder just posting on behalf of him.....you also need to consider that all dynos give different readings as well he did dyno all these engines back to back on one dyno.

I will tell you this he built our type 4 class 5 unlimited engine that was originally a different builder and it runs very well compared to before.
Isn't that where the OC correction factor that was published in Hot Vw's comes into play??
 

NIKAL

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I think they should all be equal ( as in fresh ) to make a fair comparison and I think all of the actual engine builders should be present as well. I know these engine builders do not build each and every engine identical as sometimes customers have a preference and or budget they work within.Not every motor has JE pistons , ceramic lifters, etc etc. Some of the engines are older designs that the customer has freshened up before a race.This is why I say the only true way to do this is to have each engine builder bring up their engine themselves and watch the dyno test and then compare the results. I am not defending any of these builders as I build my own but I am sure they would agree on what I have said.
Exactly! One other thing to consider is most engine builders are always working on finding more power, better cam grinds etc... So a motor that was built last November might not have the latest cam configuration or whatever changes the builder might have found since then. And just because a motor might have been recently freshened up does not mean it has the latest and greatest improvements that builder is doing right now.

Also regarding the motor with 300 miles. 300 miles can be allot when you consider many racers will have top ends re-done after racing the Mint 400. I have been told by my engine builder that the duel port motors run hotter head temps and the top ends need to be serviced more often then the old single port motor did.
 
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