2019: Why are TT's faster than Class 1 buggies?

J Burleson

Well-Known Member
I think that there were quite a few TT guys that proved on Saturday that you can do well starting in the back of TT in a longer race(2 or 4wd). So even though SCORE doesnt mix TT and 1, I think with the right car/driver its still possible to push for an overall if you start up front in class 1.
 

Robin Hood

Well-Known Member
So your saying the class 1 buggies just need to add weight and they will be faster? Dang that’s a simple solution, wonder why they haven’t done that yet? Haha.
I think thru your experiences, you should know by now, that nothing is that simple. Every change has a multiplier affect.

Class ones are limited by the drive-train. The drive-train can't handle more weight like a TT drive train can.

I'll ask you, if weight doesn't help, then why isn't a light weight TT spec dominating? Why is your truck so heavy?
 

MTPyle

Well-Known Member
Robin Hood, I know it's not that simple, that was my point. I was being sarcastic :) I guess I feel like the buggy guys did everything they could to make them faster and they can only go so fast as TT.

And yes I have followed light trucks thru the big stuff and they are all over the place. Our heavier truck for sure has an advantage in the big stuff because of weight.

Your right its all a fine balance and one change helps in one way and hurts in another.

Looking forward to our new engine package for 2020 so we can hopefully make enough power to offset our weight.

Mike
 

Steve_Sourapas

Well-Known Member
I think that there were quite a few TT guys that proved on Saturday that you can do well starting in the back of TT in a longer race(2 or 4wd). So even though SCORE doesnt mix TT and 1, I think with the right car/driver its still possible to push for an overall if you start up front in class 1.
One thing to consider was that with all the rain the dust was minimal which had to help the fast guys in the rear of the field move up much quicker this year. Normally the trucks in the back would be 15-30 minutes behind on time after the first 250 miles. With 25-30 trucks starting up front it's going to be very difficult for a class 1 to win an overall title no matter who's driving it. Add 40' tires, 900+ HP, and dependable trucks the task get's even harder
 

J Burleson

Well-Known Member
One thing to consider was that with all the rain the dust was minimal which had to help the fast guys in the rear of the field move up much quicker this year. Normally the trucks in the back would be 15-30 minutes behind on time after the first 250 miles. With 25-30 trucks starting up front it's going to be very difficult for a class 1 to win an overall title no matter who's driving it. Add 40' tires, 900+ HP, and dependable trucks the task get's even harder
Absolutely Lots of factors, but I guess its a race by race scenario.

.
 

Steve_Sourapas

Well-Known Member
Steve- When you overalled the foggy 1000, how many cars did you have to pass in dust to get there?
That was so long ago but I do remember passing a few in the first half of the 1000 that year. At that time their was no Trophy Trucks just Class 1’s and 2’s then Class 10 started next. When I got out of the car I believe we were the 4th car on the road. Ragland was broke at Gonzaga with trans problems and Dave Richardson passed the other two Class 2’s and now we when first on the road before San Felipe with an over a 10 minute lead. The fog started I’m told around Diablo and was off and on to the finish. Did it help us maybe but I feel confident on that day we would have won with or without fog. Remember the Baja 2000 it had rained before the race and in the first mile of the race the transmission got stuck in 4 gear. Over an hour of down time but we got it fixed and in the next 425 miles I passed 78 cars moving because of very little dust. That was fun.
 

DrZero

Active Member
I'd be willing to be its the rear-biased weight distribution.

I think a front-engine IRS class 1 will leave a similar rear engine IRS class 1 in the dust.

Just not many run front-engine IRS class 1's anymore.

Arciero used to drive a front-engine class 1. It had the transaxle in the back with a shaft connecting to the engine up front IIRC.
1574803094203.png
 

Attachments

DrZero

Active Member
Rules changes make vehicles like this illegal for Class 1 now. Vehicles must have rear or mid-engine configuration and Independent rear suspension.

The Truggy problem was solved, And no more front-engine buggies, even with IFS.

The Land Shark is gone, but not forgotten.
 

michael.gonzalez

Well-Known Member
Rules changes make vehicles like this illegal for Class 1 now. Vehicles must have rear or mid-engine configuration and Independent rear suspension.

The Truggy problem was solved, And no more front-engine buggies, even with IFS.

The Land Shark is gone, but not forgotten.
This is wrong. The only specification for Class 1 is open-wheel and independent rear suspension. The land shark is missing the IRS.
 

DrZero

Active Member
This is wrong. The only specification for Class 1 is open-wheel and independent rear suspension. The land shark is missing the IRS.
Here's my source.

SCORE RULE BOOK: Class 1 – SCORE Race Info

Class 1
3.05.19

©2019
SCORE International, All Rights Reserved

Page 1 of 2
Class 1
OPEN WHEEL - Unlimited
Competition Numbers 100 - 199
DEFINITION
Unlimited four-wheel single and two-seat vehicles with unlimited displacement.
Open wheel class.
No production bodied vehicles allowed in this class.
Vehicle must be rear or mid-engine design with independent rear suspension (IRS).
Gasoline and diesel engines with unlimited displacement
Engines may be either normally aspirated or forced induction
 

JEFFRPM

Non Sugar Coated
The TT's are faster because of money, balls, weight, more money, bigger balls & a barge full of EGO!
 

joshmx88

Well-Known Member
So the trucks are faster because they are heavier? In what solar system does that make sense to you?
The bias of the weight plays a huge part but just being heavier....? Come on kids.
 

Frank13

Well-Known Member
This is why I enjoy Silver State and Caliente so much. Gives the other classes a shot at the overall.
 

michael.gonzalez

Well-Known Member
"You don't know what you don't know"...I'll leave it at that.
Increasing mass will not improve suspension performance in a straight line.
Increasing mass will decrease suspension performance in turns.

Each vehicle has mass of two types:
-Sprung
-Unsprung

You are suggesting that "heavier trucks perform better".
What I think you mean to say is "trucks that have more sprung weight relative to unsprung weight perform better"

It is about the mass ratio.

(Sprung mass/unsprung mass)
<-- This is the value you want to maximize.

You can accomplish this by reducing unsprung weight. Or increasing sprung weight.

I'll let you decide which would be better for OVERALL vehicle perfomance.
 
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