2020 BITD Vegas to Reno - Race Updates and Info

jon coleman

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i believe it was the IronMan who said when pre running the big races , he would ignore all the obvious fast stuff and Only concentrate on dangeorous/ bottleneck alternate lines, because theres no way to remember a 1000 mile course( pre gps)
 

mxben

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Is there really no speed limit enforcement in the pits besides the radar guns?? If so there should be two guns in every pit. Not fair at all to abide by the rules and have someone else in your class blast right through the whole 25mph zone. I believe there was at least one front runner in our class (10) who seemed to be on the throttle through pit one. Not going to name names as its speculation... because there is no way to prove it??? Wtf.

That 45mph speed zone through the boulders was soo gnarly we went 10mph at times to avoid flats. Didn't see one guy out there enforcing it so maybe they are going to use GPS information to address that?

Also the 25mph zone up the hill, only saw a group of visual checkers at the very top when it ended, so was there any enforcement there?? Relying on the tracking info is sketch at best - they replaced our racing track once at qualifying and we came up a lot slower than we thought we went on course. Got beat by a car who had a flat tire mid way through the race - admittedly. Next they replaced that tracker because it was not functioning on the start line and installed a new one that seemed to work ok. I guess that doesn't really mean it has poor gps function but it made me skeptical.

99% of the race was good and fair I think. We got held up at a road crossing and allowed another 10 car to roll up behind us then proceed to smash us until we moved which I thought was bS, I was not driving at the time, and the driver who was knows now to brake check and take off the next time that happens. Got stuck behind a spec that was running off the back of his class and didn't really do the right thing and let us by. Those instances probably cost us at least one position. All in all it was great - I've raced baja a few times on a bike and have never seen so much silt in my life - that nevada moon dust is something else.
 

J Prich

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Is there really no speed limit enforcement in the pits besides the radar guns?? If so there should be two guns in every pit. Not fair at all to abide by the rules and have someone else in your class blast right through the whole 25mph zone. I believe there was at least one front runner in our class (10) who seemed to be on the throttle through pit one. Not going to name names as its speculation... because there is no way to prove it??? Wtf.

That 45mph speed zone through the boulders was soo gnarly we went 10mph at times to avoid flats. Didn't see one guy out there enforcing it so maybe they are going to use GPS information to address that?

Also the 25mph zone up the hill, only saw a group of visual checkers at the very top when it ended, so was there any enforcement there?? Relying on the tracking info is sketch at best - they replaced our racing track once at qualifying and we came up a lot slower than we thought we went on course. Got beat by a car who had a flat tire mid way through the race - admittedly. Next they replaced that tracker because it was not functioning on the start line and installed a new one that seemed to work ok. I guess that doesn't really mean it has poor gps function but it made me skeptical.

99% of the race was good and fair I think. We got held up at a road crossing and allowed another 10 car to roll up behind us then proceed to smash us until we moved which I thought was bS, I was not driving at the time, and the driver who was knows now to brake check and take off the next time that happens. Got stuck behind a spec that was running off the back of his class and didn't really do the right thing and let us by. Those instances probably cost us at least one position. All in all it was great - I've raced baja a few times on a bike and have never seen so much silt in my life - that nevada moon dust is something else.
Out of curiosity, where do you propose the manpower comes from to support what you're advocating here? Any idea how many volunteers and staff it takes to put on a 500+ mile point to point? What you're suggesting here is adding another 25 + people on top of that. It's hard enough just sourcing the minimum number of people they need to cover road crossings, etc.

I understand that theory you're proposing and it WOULD be great to have traffic cops posted up all over the race course. The reality is from the promoters stand point it's very difficult to make that happen. The only reasonable alternative is a tracking system that does all this in near real time automatically. That costs a significant amount of money...
 

mxben

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Out of curiosity, where do you propose the manpower comes from to support what you're advocating here? Any idea how many volunteers and staff it takes to put on a 500+ mile point to point? What you're suggesting here is adding another 25 + people on top of that. It's hard enough just sourcing the minimum number of people they need to cover road crossings, etc.

I understand that theory you're proposing and it WOULD be great to have traffic cops posted up all over the race course. The reality is from the promoters stand point it's very difficult to make that happen. The only reasonable alternative is a tracking system that does all this in near real time automatically. That costs a significant amount of money...

I don't know why we wouldn't be in agreement that a guy going 55 through the pits and a guy doing 25+- through the same pit is an issue. If a guy catches me in a pit and is on my ass when I hit the green board that sucks. There were 13 pits. 13 more people I guess. Supposedly there was already three out there. So 10.

Traffic cops? You being sarcastic? All over the race course? No. In the pits where the speed is intended to be equal for fairness. No advantage should be gained. Not 1 second.

I assume it takes hundreds of volunteers. Find 10 more.
 

jon coleman

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Out of curiosity, where do you propose the manpower comes from to support what you're advocating here? Any idea how many volunteers and staff it takes to put on a 500+ mile point to point? What you're suggesting here is adding another 25 + people on top of that. It's hard enough just sourcing the minimum number of people they need to cover road crossings, etc.

I understand that theory you're proposing and it WOULD be great to have traffic cops posted up all over the race course. The reality is from the promoters stand point it's very difficult to make that happen. The only reasonable alternative is a tracking system that does all this in near real time automatically. That costs a significant amount of money...
one guy will do it, be the speed cop,unknown location, penalty Shall be expulsion from race& a one race suspension, ONE example Will be caught& made an example of, sooooo, if you speed in a zone, be aware You might be the next example
 

MTPyle

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there was a fair amount of speeding penalties at SS300. I think there were 19 speed penalties given out at RM103. That made me think about my speed at V2R as I figured there would be one speed trap and I didn't know where. I remember seeing a lot of people in spots that could be checking for speeding.

One of the issues is poorly marked speed zones. There were a couple times we were in a speed zone and didn't know it. There was a lot of long speed zones at V2R so I don't know how you could mark any better. Maybe have different course marking colors for speed zones? We also were out of a speed zone and I thought we were still in one. My Co dog was saying why are you going so slow and I said we are in a speed zone. He said we left that awhile ago. So for me it went both ways on the confusion.

Mike


 

J Prich

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I don't know why we wouldn't be in agreement that a guy going 55 through the pits and a guy doing 25+- through the same pit is an issue. If a guy catches me in a pit and is on my ass when I hit the green board that sucks. There were 13 pits. 13 more people I guess. Supposedly there was already three out there. So 10.

Traffic cops? You being sarcastic? All over the race course? No. In the pits where the speed is intended to be equal for fairness. No advantage should be gained. Not 1 second.

I assume it takes hundreds of volunteers. Find 10 more.
I didn't actually say anything to dispute the idea that speeding on controlled speed zones is a problem, so there is no disagreement. I just pointed out the reality, which is that it's a bit more challenging to mitigate that you've laid out. You actually originally said there needs to be 2 per pit. That would put you at 26 extra bodies. And that doesn't include the several lengthy additional speed zones that are not pits.

If you think it's easy to find "just" 10 more volunteers to come sit in the middle of the desert in August for 14-16 hours, for free, I'd assume you don't have much experience working from that side of the equation. I'm willing to bet that it took a monumental effort (as it does every year) just to get to the bare minimum to cover things you HAVE to have, like road crossings and pit captains. If you think it's easy to solicit a few dozen more volunteers for these events, I'd strongly urge you to call BITD and offer your recruitment services because I'm sure they'd love to have someone help them round up those additional bodies to help pull off races.
 

J Prich

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there was a fair amount of speeding penalties at SS300. I think there were 19 speed penalties given out at RM103. That made me think about my speed at V2R as I figured there would be one speed trap and I didn't know where. I remember seeing a lot of people in spots that could be checking for speeding.

One of the issues is poorly marked speed zones. There were a couple times we were in a speed zone and didn't know it. There was a lot of long speed zones at V2R so I don't know how you could mark any better. Maybe have different course marking colors for speed zones? We also were out of a speed zone and I thought we were still in one. My Co dog was saying why are you going so slow and I said we are in a speed zone. He said we left that awhile ago. So for me it went both ways on the confusion.

Mike


Agreed on the need for additional clarification for racers. But to be clear, right out of the gate EVERYONE knows (should know) that pits are speed zones. So all racers should automatically know that 80% of the controlled speed areas are pits, so no excuse there. For the additional zones, my opinion is that its' a 50-50 deal but from a promoter stand point the additional speed zones (outside of pits) should be heavily foot stomped at the drivers meeting and in documentation provided to racers (danger list, gps file, etc). There should be no ambiguity regarding where those zones start and end.

If I were a promoter I'd want to make sure I'd done everything necessary to validate that "we told you..." so that IF there is a problem during the race, the "I didn't know" card is off the table. I would agree that there is significant room for improvement in simply defining exactly where those areas start and end so that everyone is aware.
 

mike_osborn

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I don't know why we wouldn't be in agreement that a guy going 55 through the pits and a guy doing 25+- through the same pit is an issue. If a guy catches me in a pit and is on my ass when I hit the green board that sucks. There were 13 pits. 13 more people I guess. Supposedly there was already three out there. So 10.

Traffic cops? You being sarcastic? All over the race course? No. In the pits where the speed is intended to be equal for fairness. No advantage should be gained. Not 1 second.

I assume it takes hundreds of volunteers. Find 10 more.
Let's at least start with enforcing no passing in the pits. I personally saw a 6100 pass another vehicle right in front of our pit. While I didn't have a radar gun, I'm pretty sure he was speeding while passing. The other truck wasn't obviously going slow.
 

MTPyle

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we saw some speeding also in the pits. Will be interesting to see if any of the guys we saw get a penalty.

There has to be a way to change the color of the course on our GPS files. It would be great to see a thicker wider line for speed zones.

Mike
 

J Prich

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we saw some speeding also in the pits. Will be interesting to see if any of the guys we saw get a penalty.

There has to be a way to change the color of the course on our GPS files. It would be great to see a thicker wider line for speed zones.

Mike
If as a minimum you get a danger marked at the entry and exit of each speed zone would that help? I am not savvy enough to know if the color stuff, etc can happen in a GPS file but I'd think worst case you should at least be able to have a standard marker that shows when the zone starts and ends that is in the orgs file provided to all racers.
 

MTPyle

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I think they do a good job of the beginning of the speed zone, its during thats hard to know.

The road crossings are very inconsistent also. I know they do their best to keep people moving if they can and if there is traffic they have to hold the racers. I get that but sometimes its not clear if we can just roll thru or go faster when they are waving us thru. It seems like it's a speed zone but its not clear. I heard one truck get busted for not stopping at a road crossing on the radio. I felt bad because as a racers its confusing sometimes. I think some road crossing people are excited and want us to get thru as fast as possible and other road crossings people are by the book and come to a stop even if there is no traffic.

But it's hard to get consistency out of volunteers. So I guess it is what it is. LOL

Overall BITD does really really good. Other race originations struggle even more.

Mike
 

mxben

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call me old , but why cant they have a gps thingy that traks you, And signals you,( flashing red light), your in speed zone, too simple?, expensive?
Pretty sure my navigator had the speed zone come up on his racing trax, showing my speed in green when I was within the limit, and red when I exceeded it. SCORE has it figured out with the stella, it gives you 1-3 seconds to slow your roll and gives you a warning beep. I will say the stella is not perfect but so far a better product than racing trax imo.
 

misterktm

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call me old , but why cant they have a gps thingy that traks you, And signals you,( flashing red light), your in speed zone, too simple?, expensive?
The racing trax unit does this. If in a speed zone it gives you your speed on the screen in green if you are below the speed. Red and flashing if above it. When you exit the speed zone the unit does not give you a speed read out - it goes back to blank. People just need to pay attention to it. We got caught by three rigs in the speed limit on tower hill..they were no where in sight when we entered it. On our bumper at the end of it. We did speed limit all the way up....They were not in our class...but they were in someones class...
 

J Prich

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I’ve never used Stella but my assumption is that it probably is superior to other methods being used elsewhere. The VCPs and real ish time tracking of speed violations etc are great.

But that opens up a whole other convo...cost. When you start digging in on these issues, what seems simple on the surface becomes more complicated when you actually start working through it all. There are a lot of complicated choices that have to be made because there are no easy, 100% effective solutions.
 
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