2020 BITD Vegas to Reno - Race Updates and Info

J Prich

Well-Known Member
You didn’t read what I said . I said zero teams or entrants where on coarse . Erica was not part of a team or an entrant and I cannot comment on her . All I can say is Casey never played favorites and both Daryl and Brian are the same way.
I read exactly what you said. Not trying to challenge you personally, just making a point. The "entrant" or not angle is irrelevant IMO. If that's the case, then next year I myself will also go run the course after it's marked, make a file, and give/sell it to friends who are racing. If the message is as long as you aren't an entrant or part of a team that's racing the event you can do whatever you want, how long do you think it will take for teams to find someone to go run the course for them and make notes? As long as they aren't part of our "team"...no harm no foul?
 

MTPyle

Well-Known Member
The only time you cannot go out on the race coarse is after permit has been filed . The rest of the year it is open BLM land .
BigAlRudd,

Where did you read this, or who told you this? From my understanding this is not true.

BITD said racers can not pre run, ever. BITD did not mention any permit or timeline. Its interesting that you think this as this is what I thought and was told by BITD but then they came out and said different in the press release about pre running.

Mike
 

J Prich

Well-Known Member
I'm probably going to mostly bow out here for a variety of reasons but let me just summarize the main interest in all of this from my POV. The prerunning/no prerunning thing, drama, etc is neither here nor there. There clearly IS ambiguity here in the execution of what the expectations are in my opinion but whatever that looks like is not my lane regardless of what I think.

But I strongly believe the course file thing IS a big deal. I do believe that the files orgs give to racers for courses that are "no prerun" courses are often lacking. I understand the potential reluctance for an org to make a more robust file based on liability concerns but my view is NOT doing enough to give racers course info is an equally large liability and it's in the best interest of racers to provide as useful a file as possible. There is no 100% solution that is going to work for everyone but I believe there is some level of agreement that the files provided by orgs for these races are usually inadequate and could be improved. THAT is the root of my interest here...how do we create a better mouse trap to make sure that every racer that lines up has the most useful and accurate course data (markings, danger notes, and GPS file) possible? That's the potentially productive part of this convo to me.
 

T.martin

Well-Known Member
How about paying an outside company to fly the course with a drone 1 week prior to the race and provide the footage to those that want it for a fee? Then teams could review it and make their own notes.
 

ndvalium

Rescue Director
BigAlRudd,

Where did you read this, or who told you this? From my understanding this is not true.

BITD said racers can not pre run, ever. BITD did not mention any permit or timeline. Its interesting that you think this as this is what I thought and was told by BITD but then they came out and said different in the press release about pre running.

Mike
Mike take a breath. Long and slow.

Erica, under the condition of offering this service was not allowed to race the race. Therefore not an entry into the race. She traveled behind the course marking crew making notes. She was in a regular truck. Not a race truck running course at even pre run speeds. She stopped every little bit, Marked her course notes and moved on.

Typically, teams race/test all throughout the year in Primm, Parker, Caliente and along the V2R areas. It’s considered open until marked when the course closure for the permit is officially in place.

now with everything else that 2020 has thrown at us, BITD was very clear that zero pre running would be tolerated on this V2R course and asked people to just stay clear. The permitting process is already challenging in a normal environment, add 2020 apocalypse bingo cards to the mix and just about anything could have hurt the chances of this race happening. For several months, I have been going up and down the state twice a week. I can tell you I saw no chase trucks, and no race cars. That is very different from many years. Might some been out on bikes and UTV’s, absolutely but that is tough to decipher. Heck there were 200 UTV’s that ran part of the V2R as part of a poker run two months ago.

And as I finish typing this, I realize I have never raced a race so my opinion is completely invalid to some that just want to argue to argue.

V2R is over. It’s done. Onto the next adventure! For my team that is going to be in Wickenberg Az in two weeks for the Off Road Nationals!

Excited to try something new!
 

BigAlRudd

Member
BigAlRudd,

Where did you read this, or who told you this? From my understanding this is not true.

BITD said racers can not pre run, ever. BITD did not mention any permit or timeline. Its interesting that you think this as this is what I thought and was told by BITD but then they came out and said different in the press release about pre running.

Mike
It isn’t prerunnig If there isn’t a coarse it is just driving on BLM roads . Those roads are sometimes county roads and mine access roads Or pole line that is the reason they have to Blade it after the race . Get the on x app it will tell you what land is open .
 

MTPyle

Well-Known Member
I am for sure wet with my own piss here in this thread. LOL

bigAlRudd. I totally agree and thanks for the clarification of your position. Maybe check out the thread on pre running and see that even though you and I agree on this BITD does not. Haha.

Mike
 

BigAlRudd

Member
I am for sure wet with my own piss here in this thread. LOL

bigAlRudd. I totally agree and thanks for the clarification of your position. Maybe check out the thread on pre running and see that even though you and I agree on this BITD does not. Haha.

Mike
I understand bitd stance I’m just saying the coarse changes every year and nobody knows where it is going before they pull there permit . My point is a lot of people wander around that desert not just racers zero one has tours in the goldfield area and a ton of people wander around the Mina area . 350 days a year it is public lands .
 

Robin Hood

Well-Known Member
I'm probably going to mostly bow out here for a variety of reasons but let me just summarize the main interest in all of this from my POV. The prerunning/no prerunning thing, drama, etc is neither here nor there. There clearly IS ambiguity here in the execution of what the expectations are in my opinion but whatever that looks like is not my lane regardless of what I think.

But I strongly believe the course file thing IS a big deal. I do believe that the files orgs give to racers for courses that are "no prerun" courses are often lacking. I understand the potential reluctance for an org to make a more robust file based on liability concerns but my view is NOT doing enough to give racers course info is an equally large liability and it's in the best interest of racers to provide as useful a file as possible. There is no 100% solution that is going to work for everyone but I believe there is some level of agreement that the files provided by orgs for these races are usually inadequate and could be improved. THAT is the root of my interest here...how do we create a better mouse trap to make sure that every racer that lines up has the most useful and accurate course data (markings, danger notes, and GPS file) possible? That's the potentially productive part of this convo to me.
There was a time when there was no GPS or GPS file. Some say that is not safe? I would disagree and feel that a GPS, prerunning and track files are just another means to go faster.
 

BigAlRudd

Member
BigAlRudd,

Where did you read this, or who told you this? From my understanding this is not true.

BITD said racers can not pre run, ever. BITD did not mention any permit or timeline. Its interesting that you think this as this is what I thought and was told by BITD but then they came out and said different in the press release about pre running.

Mike
It isn’t prerunnig If there isn’t a coarse it is just driving on BLM roads . Those roads are sometimes county roads and mine access roads Or pole line that is the reason they have to Blade it after the race
I'm probably going to mostly bow out here for a variety of reasons but let me just summarize the main interest in all of this from my POV. The prerunning/no prerunning thing, drama, etc is neither here nor there. There clearly IS ambiguity here in the execution of what the expectations are in my opinion but whatever that looks like is not my lane regardless of what I think.

But I strongly believe the course file thing IS a big deal. I do believe that the files orgs give to racers for courses that are "no prerun" courses are often lacking. I understand the potential reluctance for an org to make a more robust file based on liability concerns but my view is NOT doing enough to give racers course info is an equally large liability and it's in the best interest of racers to provide as useful a file as possible. There is no 100% solution that is going to work for everyone but I believe there is some level of agreement that the files provided by orgs for these races are usually inadequate and could be improved. THAT is the root of my interest here...how do we create a better mouse trap to make sure that every racer that lines up has the most useful and accurate course data (markings, danger notes, and GPS file) possible? That's the potentially productive part of this convo to me.
There was a time when there was no GPS or GPS file. Some say that is not safe? I would disagree and feel that a GPS, prerunning and track files are just another means to go faster.
i agree !! But I’m a bike guy and when I do drive cars I unplug my codrivers mike if they talk to much !! But I haven’t driven a TT either ..
 

J Prich

Well-Known Member
There was a time when there was no GPS or GPS file. Some say that is not safe? I would disagree and feel that a GPS, prerunning and track files are just another means to go faster.
Yeah I don't disagee, the GPS/No GPS thing is obviously worth it's own discussion. You may be right about the speed vs safety argument but at this point from a promoters POV, I don't think many TT guys would be happy with showing up to a no pre run race without at least a basic course file so you have to do what you have to do. The GPS toothpaste is out of the tube in my opinion.

So given the fact that a file WILL be provided, it makes sense in my head to try to make that file as useful as possible to racers. If it's only going to show the bare minimum or not be accurate, you might as well not provide one at all IMO.
 

pdailey

Racer
Yeah I don't disagee, the GPS/No GPS thing is obviously worth it's own discussion. You may be right about the speed vs safety argument but at this point from a promoters POV, I don't think many TT guys would be happy with showing up to a no pre run race without at least a basic course file so you have to do what you have to do. The GPS toothpaste is out of the tube in my opinion.

So given the fact that a file WILL be provided, it makes sense in my head to try to make that file as useful as possible to racers. If it's only going to show the bare minimum or not be accurate, you might as well not provide one at all IMO.
Don't want to do the GPS file better? Fine. But maybe actually mark the course better. The course markers really need to go for a ride in the right seat of a TT or 6100 during a race to see what I'm talking about.
 

jon coleman

Well-Known Member
Yeah I don't disagee, the GPS/No GPS thing is obviously worth it's own discussion. You may be right about the speed vs safety argument but at this point from a promoters POV, I don't think many TT guys would be happy with showing up to a no pre run race without at least a basic course file so you have to do what you have to do. The GPS toothpaste is out of the tube in my opinion.

So given the fact that a file WILL be provided, it makes sense in my head to try to make that file as useful as possible to racers. If it's only going to show the bare minimum or not be accurate, you might as well not provide one at all IMO.
that would be cool, a tt series with Iron man rules, open face helmet, no navigator, no gps, aaaa, good ole days
 

J Prich

Well-Known Member
Don't want to do the GPS file better? Fine. But maybe actually mark the course better. The course markers really need to go for a ride in the right seat of a TT or 6100 during a race to see what I'm talking about.
This one is a little tricky because what needs to be marked and how it needs to be marked for a TT is way different from a limited car. I know you know, obviously. Just saying when you’re actually out marking, trying to find the balance between what is going to work well for everyone is hard. That said, if you know of any fast movers that want to come along on a course marking day, I think that would be a huge help.

I have some time blocked out in early March that would be perfect, lol.
 

nohandslance

Well-Known Member
Just set your sight/GPS on Rawhide and you can be assured you will get to RM400. And go buy a DeLorme Atlas of Nevada.

Lance
 

J Prich

Well-Known Member
Frankly the course marking thing is worthy of it's own thread and I think there is value in talking about it. I haven't seen it discussed in a constructive way really, anywhere. Some random gripes here and there but no meaningful attempt to really get constructive feedback that could be used to improve processes, etc. And honestly I'd like to see that happen.

I personally don't need to be in a TT or fast mover to get the gist of how they see markings (although if anyone wants to take me for a ride to "show" me, I'm totally in, lol). But at worst, just having someone willing to share that feedback (markings aren't visible enough, they aren't put in the right places, there aren't enough or they are confusing...whatever) is helpful by itself. And even more helpful is to have someone with that kind of experience be willing to tag along during course marking to share input in real time. I don't know how other orgs feel about that stuff but I'm saying for me personally, I would LOVE to have that kind of help and feedback.
 

jon coleman

Well-Known Member
now , rDc, lot's of desert course marking also comes from the driver, some mark better than others, ie reading desert terrain, took me since late 70s to get ok at it, some guys are Gods at it ( Larry Ragland, RG, the Iron man, Rob Mac, those pesky McMillin s, ect), soooo, if a triple down is missing, new guy Needs good notes, old timer dosent( most of the time
 

jakeb

Member
My buddy Jake attempted V2R twice years ago on a bike and didn’t finish. This year they built a proper race bike and he entered in Open A with two friends and finished tonight! I could only imagine how hard this race is on a bike. Especially when the TT’s catch up with you near the end.
View attachment 217360View attachment 217361
Thanks, Curt. It was on my bucket list to finish this race. We surely weren't the fastest but we did finish. One odd thing about this years race was it rained a lot in the last section. It had stopped raining by the time I went through but it was VERY muddy in sections around RM 500. That last section is tough, when it wasn't super rocky it was really muddy, bike sliding all over the place.

At mile marker 498 I stopped for another rider (Darian Hickey). She was in the Ironman class and was leading the series points. I must have tried to start her bike for 5 minutes but it just wouldn't fire up. We checked the bike (in the dark) for any obvious things we could fix but just couldn't get it. I was probably there for about 15 minute in total. She said she was scared and it really sucked having to leave her there. She asked me if it would count as a finish if we towed her the last 15 miles. She ended up not getting back until around 5am. After I heard that I should have given her a ride to the finish. That would have been a brutal last 15 miles.

Around RM 512 there is a super sharp right hand turn that I overshot and went up a hill and stopped right over a big rock. These drunk spectators came running down to help me get it off the rock. In doing so they drug the bike backwards while I was holding up the bike and my knee went POP! They kept telling me its only 2.5 miles to the finish but I dont think they realized what happened to my knee. I took a couple of minutes and got back on the bike and finished the race with my knee jacked. It felt really good to finish after not making it in 1999 and 2006.

Good times
Jake #357
 

Ikaika

Active Member
Thanks, Curt. It was on my bucket list to finish this race. We surely weren't the fastest but we did finish. One odd thing about this years race was it rained a lot in the last section. It had stopped raining by the time I went through but it was VERY muddy in sections around RM 500. That last section is tough, when it wasn't super rocky it was really muddy, bike sliding all over the place.

At mile marker 498 I stopped for another rider (Darian Hickey). She was in the Ironman class and was leading the series points. I must have tried to start her bike for 5 minutes but it just wouldn't fire up. We checked the bike (in the dark) for any obvious things we could fix but just couldn't get it. I was probably there for about 15 minute in total. She said she was scared and it really sucked having to leave her there. She asked me if it would count as a finish if we towed her the last 15 miles. She ended up not getting back until around 5am. After I heard that I should have given her a ride to the finish. That would have been a brutal last 15 miles.

Around RM 512 there is a super sharp right hand turn that I overshot and went up a hill and stopped right over a big rock. These drunk spectators came running down to help me get it off the rock. In doing so they drug the bike backwards while I was holding up the bike and my knee went POP! They kept telling me its only 2.5 miles to the finish but I dont think they realized what happened to my knee. I took a couple of minutes and got back on the bike and finished the race with my knee jacked. It felt really good to finish after not making it in 1999 and 2006.

Good times
Jake #357
Congratulations Jake !!

Well done.........great spirit & tenacity.

Relive the memories as often as possible.

Cheers
 
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