2021 Baja Nevada

Bro_Gill

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So should the sa
Agreed that obviously some patience is required on the part of the passer but it's 50-50 and there is merit to the point that there are some folks that just won't move also. And on courses like this one, V2R etc it's one line and the dust is really bad. IMO it takes some respectful compromise between both parties to do the right thing and unfortunately it doesn't always go that way.

The bottom line to me is that at the end of the day you probably want to do everything you can to reduce the chance of a big heavy truck that goes really fast running up on the back of a smaller vehicle, even if that vehicle is also fast. Because when big truck hits smaller vehicle in the dust at high speed, it's gonna be bad for everyone and the arguments about who should have done what and when are mostly irrelevant then.
So should the same argument that the TT guys always use about bikes in Baja be applied here? You get passed by a slower class and you need to park it?
 

MTPyle

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UTV's were a lot closer than you think on day 1, Blais was mid pack in the 10 cars past pit 2 and they were not far behind you.

they got close when we were stopped but once we got going again we were pulling away. We downloaded the split times and are putting them in a spreadsheet. I am pretty confident our moving times were much faster than the UTV’s. Well until we got stuck behind them on day 2. Haha

Mike
 

Bro_Gill

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Another interesting aspect is passing clean on these states side courses. We pretty much race on single roads. It’s almost impossible to pass clean without taking some huge risk without good visibility. When there are many lines like in Baja it’s easier to pass “clean”

When we first started racing I would never tap anyone and would try to pass clean on the side. This has ended up being really risky and about ended my day many times. Now I make them move over and let us by. Way safer for us.

Can’t do that with a UTV so we are forced to pass “clean” and that’s more risk for us.

Mike
So are you saying that faster classes you catch on the single track move right over for you and don't jack rabbit? You guys had a bad break that ruined your race. Hitting SxS's wasn't going to make that any better.
 

MTPyle

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If UTV’s are so fast how did we catch the winner #1 UTV on day 2? That was after we had to pass a Class1 between us. We got to the UTV in the first 30 miles. Tell me how that UTV was faster than us?

I am all for cheering on UTV’s but they are not faster than our 6100.

Mike
 

calstyl2

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What was your driveline change time? thats what took you back into the UTV's
No UTV's are not faster than running 6100s or 1500's, they kick your ass in the tight twisty stuff, your acceleration is markedly better than the rubber band system.
Ive seen UTV's bypass an entire truck filled silt bed and get mixed in top 15 trucks, it didnt go well a few hundred miles later when payback came. At the end of the day its Donalds/Legacies rules, its a once a year thing, you dont bend your driveline and you are not complaining.......
 

JerryB

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This has always been the issue IMO, and probably always will. All the buttons, technology, and start orders in the world will never change the dynamic of a slower guy in not getting out of the way of a faster guy regardless of which class they are both in.
100%, someone give this thread a bump 10 years from now and it will be the same discussion going on. It really comes down to drivers and having some respect for the race someone else is involved in. Are they challenging for a podium in "their" class? Are you? Are you just so overcome by tunnel vision you aren't making good decisions? No one i can think of, maybe someone I'm not aware of, has their actual livelihood put in jeopardy by not getting by another car. Will it affect some teams sponsorship or bonus if they drop a few spots, sure. But at the end of the day this is hobby racing.

We're all competitive people, that's why we race, hell I'm not even allowed to play cards or board games at home because I'm such a sore looser! Lol. But at the end of the day desert racing is just a thrill ride some of us are lucky enough to participate in. Bottom line, don't be a d*ck!
 

J Prich

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What keeps getting lost in the speed conversation, in my humble and mostly irreleavnt opinion, is the vehicle type. From a racing standpoint maybe which class is faster has some academic value but the safety aspect should be the driver here IMO and the bottom line is any time you mix in big vehicles with small(er) vehicles, the risk factors go up dramatically.

Like I said, most loop races now have separate races to keep smaller and sometimes slower classes away from bigger and sometimes faster vehicles. Last year at the Mint when we moved Class 10 from the limited race to the unlimited race, some big truck guys weren't too happy about it. There is a speed factor there but the biggest concern was vehicle weight/size. The UTV (and even limited vehicle class) convo is not really about speed IMO. It's about the disparity in vehicle size that creates big safety issues when things go bad.
 

MTPyle

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What was your driveline change time? thats what took you back into the UTV's
No UTV's are not faster than running 6100s or 1500's, they kick your ass in the tight twisty stuff, your acceleration is markedly better than the rubber band system.
Ive seen UTV's bypass an entire truck filled silt bed and get mixed in top 15 trucks, it didnt go well a few hundred miles later when payback came. At the end of the day its Donalds/Legacies rules, its a once a year thing, you dont bend your driveline and you are not complaining.......

I guess I am just OK with complaining about something that did not go well for us. I think it's OK to try and improve or learn a different perspective. Complaining for the betterment of the sport is good in my opinion.

You are right if we would have won we would not be complaining about anything. Unless I was Bryce Menzies. LOL

But yes at the end of the day its Legacy's racings call. Pretty sure if they do the same thing next year we will not race the race. It was not worth it to have day 2 ruined by starting format. It wasn't just us that got screwed by that. Travis Williams had to start all the way in the back. If he would have started at the end of the 6100 trucks he would have made up enough time to move up a bunch of spots. He is racing for points and that would have made a huge difference to his season.

Mike
 
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JerryB

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Maybe racing trax can chime in here...make the pass signal display show up in different colors for different class, if its not your class, such as a TT, 1, 6100 coming up behind sxs, 10, take your pick, you have to move over?
 

MTPyle

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Jerry,

thats a good idea. Wonder what issues it would cause? it sure seems like it would be helpful to know who it is. If its a 6100 I am going to make them work for it. But another class I will let them go easier, especially a faster class.

That being said I was getting really mad at another 6100 that would not let us pass safely when we they got our P2P. In fact that was when I blew the corner and took out my driveline.. Ironically even after I blew the corner and bent the driveline I was able to pass them. We could not go over 90mph but still had good power on the bottom.

Mike
 

cynicwanderer

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I think if the rules are known before the race (e.g. about the start order for the next day), then avoiding that situation (i.e the possibility of getting stuck behind a slower class in corrected time), would part of the strategy for the race. I suspect, that this is a "lesson learned" for some and will be addressed the next time you have a 2 day race like this. I believe one of the V2Rs had the same format, I wonder if people who raced that, would have been aware and didn't make that mistake.
 

EL ROMAN

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Maybe I am missing something, but it seems the consensus is to rerack on day 2 by class or "category." The only hurdle is doing it in a timely fashion. Maybe Legacy needs some help on this, but this is a really easy thing to do and can be done in seconds once the results from Day 1 are complete. It's a long ways from now, and I can offer the assistance if it required, but I am sure there are guys at RacingTrax that are much smarter and better that can get it done.
 

calstyl2

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I think they should be racked according to time after the heavy vehicles, TT, 6100 and 1500, all the lighter classes can and should be mixed based on times, they all race each other well for the most part. And the slower heavy classes probably should put their ego aside when they start getting passed by lighter classes.
 

MTPyle

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I know I learned a lot about the transfer section that will help in the future. I didn’t understood how that worked and now that I do we will do it very differently in the future.

At Staging we were talking about how we could end up benefiting from the way we were staged. In theory if the UTV’s moved over fast we would pick up more time than if we were chasing down 6100. But we quickly found out that was not going to be the case on that day. Haha.

Mike
 

calstyl2

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The problem was, you didnt just have to go through the slower 6100s but the slower 1500's and Unlimited Trucks to catch the top 3 6100, all of which were running a mid pack unlimited truck pace and mixed with the un-limited trucks, so even with UTVs out of the way, the family truckster 1500 was gonna slow you down.
 
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