2021 BITD Parker BWDC / now named: Cal City Desert Challenge Brought to You by Fox

Argentino

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It just seems as though it should be enforced if a tire exists in any capacity. I don't see anyone admitting they left a tire "intentionally" due to this ruling. To me it makes the rule pointless.

I don't have a dog in the fight, I'm just stating my interpretation of the rule.
 

MTPyle

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There are a ton of subjective rules in off-road that do not matter. When we got into the sport we followed every one of them to the T. Then found out many do not matter and only there for legal reasons. Like the map saying no camping in the pits. Then everyone is camping in the pits. LOL

How would you feel if you won a race but it was taken away because a strap failed? Not good. But they had to create the rule because people were leaving tires out there on purpose. So the rule is there so they can use it if they need.

That’s what happens when you get new people into a business or a org. They don’t understand the intent or purpose of something so they make a mess of it. Pretty sure Jeff understands the rule and how to use it now. Haha

Btw the first time I got a call from Donald about a tire we “left” on the course my stomach sank and I thought oh no. I knew the rule and thought this was it. We we’re running for points so it mattered. After he asked me some questions he said OK and let us off. I was so relieved. We upgraded our strap system after that. So the rule can work.

Mike
 

Argentino

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I just thought we were holding ourselves to a higher standard and that if you take out 6 tires, you bring back 6 tires. If you take out 2 people, you bring back 2 people. Those rules and other likes it are what keep the fine line of competitive sportsmanship. Much like NASCAR.

If your strap fails, it's your fault. That's why we prep.


People championing to make this sport elite, but this is counterintuitive IMO.
 

Dave Cole 4454

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The rule isnt pointless. It changes how teams approach their race.

In Mexico the common practice is to leave their junk. Any of their junk whenever it serves a purpose. Tires, wheels, axles, water bottles, cathaters...beer cans...whatever you want.

By enforcing that rule in the states it made people accountable. I can tell you as a promoter the single suckiest thing is cleaning the race course after.

I take pride and enjoy in making it 'ready for public use' but there is not enough room in 3 Can Am Defenders to pickup 20 continuous miles of stuff we have on course.

Back on topic. Good on BITD for making the appropriate 'subjective' decision. It is hard to do that. You know no matter what someone is going to mad, and invariably, and now ironically, some keyboard warrior (looking in the mirror) gets online and spouts off :) well done BITD. When those same keyboard warriors harken back the days when your pops was running the show, its decisions like this that made people want to race BITD.

Cheers
 

JerryB

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I just thought we were holding ourselves to a higher standard and that if you take out 6 tires, you bring back 6 tires. If you take out 2 people, you bring back 2 people. Those rules and other likes it are what keep the fine line of competitive sportsmanship. Much like NASCAR.

If your strap fails, it's your fault. That's why we prep.


People championing to make this sport elite, but this is counterintuitive IMO.
I get what you're saying but consider this scenario, you're mobbing along running your race and get nerfed, causing either damage to the cage or strap, unbeknownst to you. Feeling nothing wrong with the handling of the car you continue on only to find out at the next pit or finish, your spare is gone from the hit. Should I be DQ'd or take whatever penalty applied? No absolutely not. I had no control over the loss of the tire nor knowledge is was even lost.
 

Argentino

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That makes sense for sure. My understanding may simply be more black and white...I'm not seeing that gray area but it's because I don't see a gray area written in the rule. If we discuss that area, then sure there are all kinds of possibilities each way.
 

Dave Cole 4454

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Someone that doesn't think like me = Keyboard Warrior
No dude, your incessant need to look for a fight makes you a keyboard warrior.

If it turns out that even though youve been on RDC for a year and dont use your real name, you might really be Walker Evans, or even more ironic...Phyllis...then you could "identify" as grumpy

If you were a promoter you would just be an ass. Unless your race was the flavor of the month, then you are a 'visionary' but those titles are often interchangeable.

Back to your question. Why dont you tell us who you are. Its more fun this way.
 

Argentino

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If you think a dialogue is a fight or picking a fight or that you're being attacked, that's on you. I'm not mad about anything. I'm stating my opinion. You seem to have another opinion so you've chosen to go the name calling route. That's also on you.

My name is clearly listed.

You seem to be fond of Echo Chambers, but I'll continue to state my opinion regardless of yours.


As it is, the discussion was about a tire falling off. I'm sticking with my interpretation which is that the penalty SHOULD have been applied.
 

Bro_Gill

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A penalty was applied, then, after more evidence came forward, the penalty was rescinded as the events unfolded more clearly. Are you also the guy who believes a 7 year old kid should be suspended from school because he bit his pop tart into the shape of a gun or that a 5 year old should be suspended for sexual harassment because he kissed his 5 year old friend on the cheek? 100110100011110101? Please. We are adults capable of thought and applying subjective thought to situations that need it. Managing sole by a book means you went to management school. Making tough decisions with thought and applying mental strength means you have what it takes to be a leader.
 

Dave Cole 4454

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If you think a dialogue is a fight or picking a fight or that you're being attacked, that's on you. I'm not mad about anything. I'm stating my opinion. You seem to have another opinion so you've chosen to go the name calling route. That's also on you.

My name is clearly listed.

You seem to be fond of Echo Chambers, but I'll continue to state my opinion regardless of yours.


As it is, the discussion was about a tire falling off. I'm sticking with my interpretation which is that the penalty SHOULD have been applied.
Wasnt really asking your name, though I apparently have trouble grasping the obvious, because Im not seeing your name clearly.

I was asking who you are. Trying to understand your full perspective. Genuinely.

The cool thing is if your perspective is just to be a contrarian, I can still enjoy reading your perspective but wont invest any effort engaging because its not a productive thing for either of us.

If I totally understand your perspective it gives a better opportunity to learn new things.

Are you a passionate fan, racer, former racer, crew guy/girl. None of it is a validation/Invalidation of you or your opinion.

Cheers
 

Argentino

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I don't know anything about pop tarts or child affairs. Just that there was a tire on the track.

They made the final call and that's what stands. I didn't see ambiguity within the rule though it presented itself to others.


I wouldn't say anything here that I wouldn't say in person. Where can you find me? I'll be at at all the Legacy races and select others throughout the 2022 season. 👍
 

class5cole

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2D7A6C6A-DF1A-49DE-B79E-4D7C741586DF.jpeg
 

SMS81

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Yeah tons of people leave $1000 wheel sets on the course "intentionally". I throw them off as I'm racing like Mario Kart.

Seems to me that the same type of people interpreting, "Shall not be infringed" got to interpret this very clearly written rule as well.

If it has to be intentional, then the rule has no purpose. Now, it's a weapon.
Don’t know if someone mentioned this but,..
Teams have been stashing parts, tires and other items in the desert for years. To some a $1000 wheel tire combo is nothing. I think these rules were made to help stop this and clean up the desert. I remember at the last SCORE primm 300, we found 6 new tires and wheels stashed at the rock garden on our sweep. Under bushes, under plywood, carpet etc, and that was just the rock garden! I always assumed teams would be back and pick them up after the race. FYI, it was very obvious to figure out who were the offenders!!
 
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MTPyle

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Yes the rule was to stop that and it’s worked. It was never to give penalties to accidental lose of tire.

Most of the tires purposely left in Baja are blown tires on bent wheels. They are not worth $1000. TT’s usually run cast wheels which are not very expensive and somewhat disposable. You can’t run a cast wheel forever. So those tires and wheels left in Baja on purpose are worth very little. Maybe $200, but no more. Not to mention many TT teams do not pay for wheels and tires.

I am also always blown away at how much stuff gets left in the desert during a race. For some reason the Mint seems the worse. The last lap of the mint looks like a junk yard out there. Obviously all race orgs do an amazing job of clean up.

The tires are the hardest things to clean up. Pick up one 40” tire in a UTV and you are full and have to go back. It not only is heavy but huge. The hardest thing to clean up after the race. This was told to me by someone that is involved in every race clean up.

Mike
 

J Prich

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Would be super cool to see racers/teams offer up some folks to help run a course first thing the next morning before pulling out of town, to clean up. Would make grabbing all those lost tires, tool bags, extinguishers, etc a lot easier with more folks. Post race clean up is a pain, but really it's the emotional drain that sucks the most to me. After a week or whatever or hard work to get everything ready, etc, the morale drain of going back out the day after the party is over to clean up the mess left behind is brutal.

Would be cool to see a small consortium of folks willing to pitch in and take a chunk of race course to sweep. Day dreams, lol.
 

MTPyle

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That’s what the penalty should be. If you leave a tire on course you have to clean up after the race to get any points.

Mike
 
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