2021 Mint 400 starting order

Crowd Pleaser

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I remember this video
This pisses me off every time I see it as a long time Class 11 racer and racer in general. The fact that there was so much room to pass is one thing, but the fact the talentless driver never stopped to check on the other racers he crashed is mind blowing.
 

Viola1685

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Well of course you would rather be with the faster vehicles. That puts the challenge of getting around you on them. Just like you don't want to have to work around slower vehicles neither do we. for me its about not just safety but overall mechanical risk to the lighter buggies. It's just not right to put cars that can't be hit with full size trucks in the same race. If a full size truck barely hit's a class 10 it can end their day.

at Cal City there was a 10 car that got hit by a truck and smashed the rear bumper in pretty bad. That car could not take one more hit, it would have taken out its engine. Why would a class 10 want that?

I Really think lighter buggies should be with lighter vehicles. Class 1 and some Class 6200 can take a hit from a truck but not many Class 10 can. It's easy to say you will move over but on race day that rarely happens.

Mike
There’s decent arguments on both sides of the equation. Personally I think it’s a lot easier for 6100’s to pass a few class 10’s then for us to pass 150 cars which I can tell you from the last time we ran the mint we passed over 100 cars in 4 laps. I’m not sure about other class 10’s but we have personally been hit by a couple class 1’s and a few tt’s and my cage doesn’t look any worse for ware.

Again not trying to start a pissing match over where class 10 should start but I think most will agree easier for a few trophy trucks and 6100’s to pass a few class 10’s then most of the class 10’s pass 100 limited cars.
 

SMS81

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This argument always makes me shake my head. Facts are if the tt, 6100 and 1 start in front of the 10s on a long loop race, none should catch the fast 10s. They will catch the 10s that don’t belong in the class because they are slow, just like the 10 cars will be passing the country clubbers in 6100. The guys that know how to drive have no trouble getting passed or passing safely. Once again we have to make rules for people who are too stupid to think for themselves.
 

J Prich

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Just to clarify here...the Class 10s at the Mint will race on Saturday with TT/6100/1, just like they did last year. There are valid safety concerns raised regardless of which way you do this and that's always a challenge with loop races. There is a significant speed/safety concern with the 10s running with slower vehicles on Friday in the same way that there is with TTs/6100s racing with 10s on Saturday. As I said previously in this thread, we did not have any issues with this last year and (knock on wood) I don't anticipate there being any issues with that here this year either.

As noted above, it will take the TT/6100s a while to catch the 10s and with the number of entries plus attrition, there should be ample room to pass and work around each other on Saturday.
 

MTPyle

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SMS81

I agree that if you started in front of a class 10 in a 6100 you should never see them and if they are a factor its the 6100 fault for having something go wrong.

In a loop race its possible to be racing with a class 10 and not have a problem with the 6100 but thats an outlier.

For sure its easy for a TT to get around a class 10. But a fast class 10 is faster than a 6100 in tight stuff and not much slower in the straights. Its very hard to get by a fast class 10 in a 6100 unless you are comfortable pushing hard towards them in the big stuff and straights. We are not but I think we need to just say F it and race the class 10's straight up. At least I will be able to point to threads like this if we end up crushing the back of a class 10. Hey they said they can take it. LOL

I am less worried about when class 10 are started behind but its absolutely ridiculous to start class 10 mixed in with full size trucks, ever. It just adds a handicap to the trucks that got behind the class 10.

Mike
 

MTPyle

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Just read Jason's post.

I want to be clear I am making general stamtments. Last year at the Mint we did not have an issue with any class 10's and we had lots of problems on course and some got around us. I made the point earlier that the dust is less at the Mint than some other races so its easier to safely get by class 10.

I guess I am still arguing from Cal City and Legacy 600 when they started light buggies mixed with 6100. I know the Mint400 will not do that. If class 10 start behind us and they get by us thats on us. But if they mix in based on qualifying time like BITD just did then we will have a problem.

Mike
 

Viola1685

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SMS81

I agree that if you started in front of a class 10 in a 6100 you should never see them and if they are a factor its the 6100 fault for having something go wrong.

In a loop race its possible to be racing with a class 10 and not have a problem with the 6100 but thats an outlier.

For sure its easy for a TT to get around a class 10. But a fast class 10 is faster than a 6100 in tight stuff and not much slower in the straights. Its very hard to get by a fast class 10 in a 6100 unless you are comfortable pushing hard towards them in the big stuff and straights. We are not but I think we need to just say F it and race the class 10's straight up. At least I will be able to point to threads like this if we end up crushing the back of a class 10. Hey they said they can take it. LOL

I am less worried about when class 10 are started behind but its absolutely ridiculous to start class 10 mixed in with full size trucks, ever. It just adds a handicap to the trucks that got behind the class 10.

Mike
I agree with you 100% here mixing the class 10’s and 6100’s doesn’t make sense at all. When that happens trouble is bound to happen but on a loop when when we start behind you guys it’s a lot safer and less of an issue for sure
 

SMS81

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SMS81

I agree that if you started in front of a class 10 in a 6100 you should never see them and if they are a factor its the 6100 fault for having something go wrong.

In a loop race its possible to be racing with a class 10 and not have a problem with the 6100 but thats an outlier.

For sure its easy for a TT to get around a class 10. But a fast class 10 is faster than a 6100 in tight stuff and not much slower in the straights. Its very hard to get by a fast class 10 in a 6100 unless you are comfortable pushing hard towards them in the big stuff and straights. We are not but I think we need to just say F it and race the class 10's straight up. At least I will be able to point to threads like this if we end up crushing the back of a class 10. Hey they said they can take it. LOL

I am less worried about when class 10 are started behind but its absolutely ridiculous to start class 10 mixed in with full size trucks, ever. It just adds a handicap to the trucks that got behind the class 10.

Mike
10s should not start mixed in but as a class. There is no reason to “smash” in the rear end of any vehicle, a tt can nerf a 1600 safely without crushing it, you just have to know how to control your vehicle. Now if the guy in front does not reply to a friendly tap, that’s a different story. Personally I won’t move until you hit my bumper, then you caught me and I will make plenty of room for you to pass me.
 

10 shot

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Mixing class 10 with trucks on time is extremely stupid. Getting caught behind a class 10 because you have a problem is your own fault and you should punch yourself in the balls! Unfortunately we all cant have our own course to race on and we all have had this problem with all classes. Does class 10 want to run with golf carts and have to pass all the slower cars on lap 2?? Hell no! Wait till utvs want to start in front of trophy trucks because that think they are a premier class and are the fastest cars out there! 🤐🤣
 

J Prich

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Yeah for the Mint, Class 10s aren't qualifying and they will start behind TT/6100/1. Any loop race always runs an increased risk of faster cars running up on slower cars no matter what class. Not much we can do to mitigate that but again I'm confident that given the space available, car count, etc, there is not an elevated safety risk by having them run with the trucks. Will foot stomp passing etiquette like always as part of the drivers meeting and of course that is always overridden by adrenaline in the moment but I think with few exceptions there is enough space on this course to be patient and make passes.

EDIT - It wasn't all that long ago that the Mint was two races, on the same day. And some of the limited cars weren't off the course before the TT's started, creating some sketchy (IMO at least) situations of lead TT's bombing it up behind the limited class stragglers trying to get back to the finish. Just saying that to say that the big fast vehicles versus the smaller slower vehicles is always a potential hazard and something that we try to mitigate as best we can via scheduling, but also requires some between the ears assistance from the folks holding the steering wheels too. No different than TTs running up on the backs of bikes and quads in point to point races, etc.
 
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MTPyle

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Viola1685,

Totally agree.

I may be more sensitive to this than most. For one we have historically been in the mid or back of 6100 so we get more interaction with class 10 than most. Also I am super in tuned with the fact that we are racing the clock not the other racers. So it makes me more anxious and pissed when someone holds us up. There is no reason for anyone to hold up another class thats caught them on has been on their tail forever.

Personally I have been stuck behind C10 and C1 and its so frustrating. They hold us up but are faster in some areas. But they kill our time. We remind ourselves we are racing the clock so every second matters.

It sucks to be faster than someone and not able to get around them in a timed race. This last Cal city was the peak of that frustration, I just need to let that go. LOL

Mike
 

MTPyle

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" between the ears assistance from the folks holding the steering wheels"

haha that between the ears device usually shuts down when the the race starts. Haha Everyone has good intentions before the race, but during the race we all become total idiots.

Mike
 

Viola1685

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Mike I totally get it. We’ve been stuck behind plenty of big trucks on the siren and bumping them and simple they just don’t want to move for the little buggies and not always easy to step out in the bushes and go for it so I definitely understand the being held up aspect for sure.
 

10 shot

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Even worse when your on lap 2 and a slower class that had a problem on lap one is just leaving the pit in front of you and your leading your class and he decides to race you! Now everyone behind you in your class is catching you. This is just how desert racing is and part of it.
 

cwarren

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Viola1685,

Totally agree.

I may be more sensitive to this than most. For one we have historically been in the mid or back of 6100 so we get more interaction with class 10 than most. Also I am super in tuned with the fact that we are racing the clock not the other racers. So it makes me more anxious and pissed when someone holds us up. There is no reason for anyone to hold up another class thats caught them on has been on their tail forever.

Personally I have been stuck behind C10 and C1 and its so frustrating. They hold us up but are faster in some areas. But they kill our time. We remind ourselves we are racing the clock so every second matters.

It sucks to be faster than someone and not able to get around them in a timed race. This last Cal city was the peak of that frustration, I just need to let that go. LOL

Mike

Don't like slower vehicles holding you up that started behind you? Try starting behind slower heavier vehicles almost every race. If you have issues or are passed by "slower cars" you lost your right to complain. I am 100% for all of us qualifying together (TT, Spec TT, 1 and 10) and starting in the exact order you qualified in. It's very easy to nudge someone that you catch and if they don't move free game on the back of their car. If they were given the chance to move, again, they lose the right to complain about what happens next.
 

Steve_Sourapas

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Don't like slower vehicles holding you up that started behind you? Try starting behind slower heavier vehicles almost every race. If you have issues or are passed by "slower cars" you lost your right to complain. I am 100% for all of us qualifying together (TT, Spec TT, 1 and 10) and starting in the exact order you qualified in. It's very easy to nudge someone that you catch and if they don't move free game on the back of their car. If they were given the chance to move, again, they lose the right to complain about what happens next.
Be careful what you ask for.
 

Viola1685

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Don't like slower vehicles holding you up that started behind you? Try starting behind slower heavier vehicles almost every race. If you have issues or are passed by "slower cars" you lost your right to complain. I am 100% for all of us qualifying together (TT, Spec TT, 1 and 10) and starting in the exact order you qualified in. It's very easy to nudge someone that you catch and if they don't move free game on the back of their car. If they were given the chance to move, again, they lose the right to complain about what happens next.
Good to see another class 10 guy chiming in but 100% agree
 

LAZY-H

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It wasn't all that long ago that the Mint was two races, on the same day. And some of the limited cars weren't off the course before the TT's started, creating some sketchy (IMO at least) situations of lead TT's bombing it up behind the limited class stragglers trying to get back to the finish.
🙋🏻‍♂️
It was beyond sketchy
 

MTPyle

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Lots of guys signed up for this years Mint when it was earlier in the year. When the dates got changed and moved to rework December a lot of those guys bailed and got refunds.

Look at spec trucks and there are guys that are racing B1K and no way are racing the Mint. I talked to 7 guys that show on the list that are for sure not racing Spec at Mint.

Mike
 
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