2021 SCORE Baja 500 Live Video, Weatherman, Tracking, Updates

jon coleman

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Which thread is Coleman NOT in?
the mx section, im a washed up vet novice racer, i know my limitations( ps, im thinking of stepping up my game, im gonna go to the mig 29 style post, like pages of info that will lead into numerous directions that will blo your mind!, yes?, no??
 

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rustyb

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Whoa cowboy. Holster that pistol. You speak as though once you cross into Mexico, it is a lawless land as far as compliance and considerate behavior is concerned.
First off, sections GPT7 and GPT8 of the SCORE rulebook clearly state no less than 4 places where you are not allowed to pit. So, one cannot pit "where ever you please" as you stated. There are rules regarding this, and you will be penalized or forced to move if you violate them.
Secondly, for anyone to think that 465 miles of mostly open land can be covered the morning of the race is just ludicrous. I did not say, nor did I imply that. Clearing the course would only require that you cover the 5% of the course that is densely populated (which is only 25 miles or so) in an effort to protect the spectators and provide as safe of a racing environment as possible for the competitors. That would not require "locking down the state", or "locking people in their homes" as you implied.
The whole point I was making was in response to a post regarding what the rule book considers to be the race course boundaries and why I believe that area was not cleared of spectators prior to the race (hence the comparison to state side racing, cause that poop wouldn't fly here). Kapeesh?
To say that I have a "Complete lack of understanding of what Baja racing is" is ignorant and insulting. I do know what it is not. It is not the place to do WTF you want or WTF you need to do to secure a top finish. Both Andy and Luke publicly stated that their actions were regrettable and not well thought out. I'm sure they both are counting their blessings that no locals were injured as a result of their actions. Although the Mexican govt may offer a level of protection to SCORE, deep pocket racers like the Mc Millins would be screwed had something bad happened.
I stand corrected on the pits, I was only aware of the prohibition on pitting on the pavement. Guess I better read the rule book before the 1000.

I did not mean to convey that lawless and inconsiderate behavior should be tolerated in Baja. My opinion is that both Luke and Andy should be DQed. If the chase driver in the other video can be identified, the team should receive a penalty. I have always told my crew not to speed or drive in an unsafe manner, that being on time to a pit is not worth a life. I have personally witnessed the carnage caused by idiot chasers.

I apologize for the phrase you found offensive, I could have worded that better.

I stand by my other comments.
 

Big Hock

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You cannot compare racing in the U.S. to racing in Mexico. There are no designated pits-you may pit wherever you please. The course is not closed-you will encounter traffic, whether it be chasers, spectators, or someone going to the store for milk. Livestock on the course is very common. There are no rules for spectators, and alternate lines you took prerunning may be filled with vehicles and families come race day. To suggest that SCORE should be clearing the course before hand is ludicrous-the whole state would have to be closed and people locked in their homes. The race does not just take place on a huge swath of unoccupied desert-it also goes through ranches, villages, cities, etc. I am reminded of when Caselli was killed, and the internet was going crazy, and when it was speculated that he hit livestock, someone asked why a cow was on the course, anyway. Complete lack of understanding of what Baja racing is.
Everything you just said is an argument to BE CAREFUL! Livestock is common, be careful. You will encounter traffic, be careful. Does the guy going to the store for milk deserve to be run off the road just because you want a trophy? No. He’s just going about his life and then some gringo shows up in a million dollar truck and runs him into a ditch. No little plastic trophy is worth a life. Be careful.
 

Bro_Gill

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Can someone, ANYONE, here, please list all the pro drivers that earn their living and have all race expenses paid by an outside source versus all the 'Hobby' racers who mostly do this out of their own pockets and with family dollars so we know who is worthy of actually receiving the $29.00 dollar trophy?
 

Tube ride

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Now YouTube is filling up with spectator videos , it’s clear who the locals love the most . Nobody is as loved as RRRROBBY GORDONNN !!!!!! Everyone knows him and they can’t wait to see the orange flash! Crowd favorite down there makes you the big winner to me
 

supercrew144

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Can someone, ANYONE, here, please list all the pro drivers that earn their living and have all race expenses paid by an outside source versus all the 'Hobby' racers who mostly do this out of their own pockets and with family dollars so we know who is worthy of actually receiving the $29.00 dollar trophy?
Rob Mac
 

Bro_Gill

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I agree Rob is the consummate professional. Don't see his name in lights for penalties. But just 1? That's all you can give me?
 

Bro_Gill

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Up to two and this one may get his name in penalty lights, but I also think paid wheel man is much different than earning a living.
 

trailready

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Why not use the model used by other racing orgs. Let the results stand as scored by the race control (timing, VCP, trackers, etc..) and the apply fines for "actions detrimental to the sport" separately. Monetary(due before or with next entry fee), dock championship points, sit driver or crew member for next race(s) etc....
Don' change or delay results based on spectator videos.
 

y2kbaja

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Why not use the model used by other racing orgs. Let the results stand as scored by the race control (timing, VCP, trackers, etc..) and the apply fines for "actions detrimental to the sport" separately. Monetary(due before or with next entry fee), dock championship points, sit driver or crew member for next race(s) etc....
Don' change or delay results based on spectator videos.
In a sport where fines are applied EVERYONE makes a living at racing.
 

stephenrjking

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Why not use the model used by other racing orgs. Let the results stand as scored by the race control (timing, VCP, trackers, etc..) and the apply fines for "actions detrimental to the sport" separately. Monetary(due before or with next entry fee), dock championship points, sit driver or crew member for next race(s) etc....
Don' change or delay results based on spectator videos.
Penalties are still applied during races. Pit speeding, etc. Those penalties are significantly detrimental to one's results, so the penalties are a powerful disincentive to breaking rules. At Indy this cars actually spun out (and others came close) trying to brake down to the pit road speed limit.

If there is a consistent standard, if you know that an unsafe driving maneuver around a civilian that is caught will be harshly penalized in race results, drivers and teams will start avoiding such maneuvers because even in a competitive mindset, they will believe that their race is in jeopardy if they do something unsafe.
 

Tipracer

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The only thing for certain is this the most penalty ridden race I can remember
 

trailready

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Penalties are still applied during races. Pit speeding, etc. Those penalties are significantly detrimental to one's results, so the penalties are a powerful disincentive to breaking rules. At Indy this cars actually spun out (and others came close) trying to brake down to the pit road speed limit.

If there is a consistent standard, if you know that an unsafe driving maneuver around a civilian that is caught will be harshly penalized in race results, drivers and teams will start avoiding such maneuvers because even in a competitive mindset, they will believe that their race is in jeopardy if they do something unsafe.
Speeding in the pits is race control. Running over the corning of a tent after a spectator moved another tent is not. One is black and white and effects finishing order, while the other subjective and could effect the reputation of the sport in Mexico for years to come.
 
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stephenrjking

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Speeding in the pits is race control. Running over the corning of a tent after a spectator moved another tent is not. One is black and white and effects finishing order, while the other subjective and effects the reputation of the sport in Mexico for years to come.
Both of the dangerous driving actions by McMillins, as well as the dangerous chase truck pass, are the result of drivers and teams acting in the heat of the moment with the motive to win the race. As a result, they did things that are unsafe to others.

It seems quite logical to suggest that the best disincentive for actions taken with a motive of winning a race would be to penalize those actions in such a way as to materially damage one's ability to win the race. So when you're caught behind a car that is driving some significant speed slower than the speed limit, your desire to pass them because the slow driving might lose you the race is counterbalanced by the knowledge that if you pass dangerously and SCORE learns about it you'll get a penalty that is much greater than the time you lose waiting behind them in traffic.

The same principle operates in other sports. Football players are changing how they hit each other due to targeting rules. NCAA hockey ejects anyone who fights from both the game they're in and the next game they play, and there are almost no fights. MLB decides it's going to start taking seriously the use of foreign substances by pitchers, the the league batting average rises 12 points. Disincentives matter. And establishing them *consistently and fairly* protects locals and helps competitors by providing a powerful consideration when they are driving in the heat of the moment.

I mean, in my opinion. I am, after all, just a keyboard warrior. But I think a guy racing for a win in Baja would be more worried about a 30 minute time penalty than a $20,000 fine.
 

stephenrjking

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Why not use the model used by other racing orgs. Let the results stand as scored by the race control (timing, VCP, trackers, etc..) and the apply fines for "actions detrimental to the sport" separately. Monetary(due before or with next entry fee), dock championship points, sit driver or crew member for next race(s) etc....
Don' change or delay results based on spectator videos.
FWIW, I completely share your frustration with the delay in results, and I understand where you're coming from here. I want results when the race finishes, too. It's bad for the sport. It's worth noting, though, that basically all of these incidents (certainly two McMillin ones) were at least somewhat known Saturday evening, as there were whispers about them on social media. SCORE has a tough job here, but they are acutely aware that the ability to continue to race in Baja is dependent upon the continued cooperation of local citizens and authorities. And that means safety.
 
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