2021 SCORE Baja 500 Live Video, Weatherman, Tracking, Updates

az_amsoil

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IMO, Andy should have been penalized enough to give Dan a 3rd place finish :cool:

The DQ for Luke is ballsy! Penalizing a guy's season; who's family contributes a ton to SCORE and the title sponsor of both Luke's truck and the Baja 500/1000. Wonder what the brass at 4WP is thinking 🤔
 

BajaboundMoto

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Chase truck incident... Seems there's those who believe he was chasing team X, those who believe he was chasing team Y, and that he was there to help multiple teams and deliver non-race parts (seems like a stretch, but OK). Basically not enough to convict any team. So what do you do?
Because of IGram posts I'd say maybe he was chasing a team with multiple trucks. If that's true that team could very easily claimed the chaser was chasing their B truck. And if that's the case that teams owner/driver, not being in the points hunt, could have looked good and been positive for his sponsors even by owning it.
"Chevy was chasing me, not him, and I accept full responsibility, DQ me, I'm very sorry, it won't happen again".
Points don't matter in this guys case.
Currently he get's nothing except laughs for wanking it crossing the Mikes stream.
Someone had him in Baja. I doubt he paid his own rooms.
Regardless if we've all done stupid sheet too, in this day it's the public perception of what happened and we shouldn't make it look like we're not considerate to the local people.

Numbers on chase trucks.... Aint gonna work. There's a S-ton of trucks out there with numbers of teams they aren't helping just cuz it looks cool. F that. We don't have numbers or logos on any of our stuff, low profile. And the number on the front windshield corner, so what, you'd never read that in a photo.

How about this, DON'T DRIVE LIKE A D1CK!
Like Art said, plan to be there early, expect to be there late.

CRB.... It's made up of current and former racers and sometimes knowledgeable industry guy, yes some in the same class (as being tried), I believe they try to not have more than 1 guy from any specific class (like 1 biker, 1 5/16, 1 TT, 1 SLites, 1 utv), and they all know if someone has a bias or not and those people (it's been me before) are asked to leave the room during that specific case.
I don't believe anyone withOUT knowledge of Baja routes and race situations is invited because sometimes you need to make a call about a certain area.
From what I can gather, this past CRB had on it, but not limited to, 1 TT Cam, 1 former bike racer, 1 former bike racer now sometimes car racer, 1 UTV, not sure who else.
They change around who is on CRB but also keep some of the same people because they've proven knowledgeable, unbiased, open minded, and can verbalize their pov.

#1... A much as I hate to say it, the penalty is probably right. I'm guessing the CRB voted that it really isn't us racers or what happened but about the local public perception of what happened. Luke did not "get roasted for something that was nothing", it's possible it's not about us. Bummer yes, but those that want to shut us down don't need more ammo, we freely give them plenty.

#31... Again some are convinced he hit the car, some are sure he did not. Is there proof he hit the civilian? I don't think so. I'd say if he did hit it then you MUST DQ. But maybe there's no proof so the CRB voted penalty only. Again, perception.

"Rules"... Baja racing is a different sorta thing and no way can you have black and white rules for everything. Well, pitting on the highway, OK, pretty simple....

Really interesting videos out there about Stella tracker units... Some are fast and some are slow, wow, I never realized.

People whining about racing on the highway or not paying landowners to race on their dirt... Yeah used to be WFO on highways, talk about crazy. My 1st 1000 when I was 16 years old we raced out to Ojos, all on asphalt, with wet road, as the sun was rising, passing civilians and chase trucks, then did it the same coming back in. Cheesnrice that was dumb.
Some asphalt sections used to be so long teams would pit at both ends to run street tires only for that section.
We've also started/finished HOUR+ away from Ensenada multiple times.
Baja's growing and private land is changing. I'm stoked SCORE has done as well as they do keeping as much dirt as they possibly can.
* iirc 1996 we had to "clock in" hitting the free road at La Mision and "clock out" at the dirt at Rosarito. It was safe. But it takes manpower. I guesstimate this 500 would have taken 50 VOLUNTEERS to do timing in the big timed sections (like not San Quintin, too short). Who's going to collect 60 (cuz 10 are gonna cancel at the last minute) people? Do they pay their own room and gas? I can easily see this costing SCORE $10,000 to make happen. Who's paying for that? @Fifty this might be your calling. This is another (I used to write a lot of letters to Sal about racing stuff) subject I wrote a letter to Sal about years ago, about exactly how to make it work and be fair and remove the human "mistake" element.

And while I'm ranting, SILT beds... They weren't silt when the course was marked. It will never happen, but maybe 750HP and 40's should be replaced by 150HP max and 35's max. With all these crazy VCPs the homework is way limited and 3 weeks is too many, make it 1 week.

I hate long posts...
 
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AZ7000'

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If the west wasn’t on fire for the 500 how about an $xxx.xx surcharge per team and get some water drops on the silt beds from a helo or a fixed wing plane, base it in Ensenada for the day before the race, could cover them in a day easy!

Truly an option for the mill during the fire “off season”??

discuss
 

mxben

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^ I know the locals like the extended amount of pre running time. But, if it was consolidated to maybe 10 days I think it could work. Just thought.

I think its possible for the Stella team to deduct the speed zone race time. Has to be. Enforce a speed limit but not include the time. Must maintain track position, no passing unless push to pass is used and reciprocated with a YES push. Makes sense.
 

Fifty

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Chase truck incident... Seems there's those who believe he was chasing team X, those who believe he was chasing team Y, and that he was there to help multiple teams and deliver non-race parts (seems like a stretch, but OK). Basically not enough to convict any team. So what do you do?
Because of IGram posts I'd say maybe he was chasing a team with multiple trucks. If that's true that team could very easily claimed the chaser was chasing their B truck. And if that's the case that teams owner/driver, not being in the points hunt, could have looked good and been positive for his sponsors even by owning it.
"Chevy was chasing me, not him, and I accept full responsibility, DQ me, I'm very sorry, it won't happen again".
Points don't matter in this guys case.
Currently he get's nothing except laughs for wanking it crossing the Mikes stream.
Someone had him in Baja. I doubt he paid his own rooms.
Regardless if we've all done stupid sheet too, in this day it's the public perception of what happened and we shouldn't make it look like we're not considerate to the local people.

Numbers on chase trucks.... Aint gonna work. There's a S-ton of trucks out there with numbers of teams they aren't helping just cuz it looks cool. F that. We don't have numbers or logos on any of our stuff, low profile. And the number on the front windshield corner, so what, you'd never read that in a photo.

How about this, DON'T DRIVE LIKE A D1CK!
Like Art said, plan to be there early, expect to be there late.

CRB.... It's made up of current and former racers and sometimes knowledgeable industry guy, yes some in the same class (as being tried), I believe they try to not have more than 1 guy from any specific class (like 1 biker, 1 5/16, 1 TT, 1 SLites, 1 utv), and they all know if someone has a bias or not and those people (it's been me before) are asked to leave the room during that specific case.
I don't believe anyone withOUT knowledge of Baja routes and race situations is invited because sometimes you need to make a call about a certain area.
From what I can gather, this past CRB had on it, but not limited to, 1 TT Cam, 1 former bike racer, 1 former bike racer now sometimes car racer, 1 UTV, not sure who else.
They change around who is on CRB but also keep some of the same people because they've proven knowledgeable, unbiased, open minded, and can verbalize their pov.

#1... A much as I hate to say it, the penalty is probably right. I'm guessing the CRB voted that it really isn't us racers or what happened but about the local public perception of what happened. Luke did not "get roasted for something that was nothing", it's possible it's not about us. Bummer yes, but those that want to shut us down don't need more ammo, we freely give them plenty.

#31... Again some are convinced he hit the car, some are sure he did not. Is there proof he hit the civilian? I don't think so. I'd say if he did hit it then you MUST DQ. But maybe there's no proof so the CRB voted penalty only. Again, perception.

"Rules"... Baja racing is a different sorta thing and no way can you have black and white rules for everything. Well, pitting on the highway, OK, pretty simple....

Really interesting videos out there about Stella tracker units... Some are fast and some are slow, wow, I never realized.

People whining about racing on the highway or not paying landowners to race on their dirt... Yeah used to be WFO on highways, talk about crazy. My 1st 1000 when I was 16 years old we raced out to Ojos, all on asphalt, with wet road, as the sun was rising, passing civilians and chase trucks, then did it the same coming back in. Cheesnrice that was dumb.
Some asphalt sections used to be so long teams would pit at both ends to run street tires only for that section.
We've also started/finished HOUR+ away from Ensenada multiple times.
Baja's growing and private land is changing. I'm stoked SCORE has done as well as they do keeping as much dirt as they possibly can.
* iirc 1996 we had to "clock in" hitting the free road at La Mision and "clock out" at the dirt at Rosarito. It was safe. But it takes manpower. I guesstimate this 500 would have taken 50 VOLUNTEERS to do timing in the big timed sections (like not San Quintin, too short). Who's going to collect 60 (cuz 10 are gonna cancel at the last minute) people? Do they pay their own room and gas? I can easily see this costing SCORE $10,000 to make happen. Who's paying for that? @Fifty this might be your calling. This is another (I used to write a lot of letters to Sal about racing stuff) subject I wrote a letter to Sal about years ago, about exactly how to make it work and be fair and remove the human "mistake" element.

And while I'm ranting, SILT beds... They weren't silt when the course was marked. It will never happen, but maybe 750HP and 40's should be replaced by 150HP max and 35's max. With all these crazy VCPs the homework is way limited and 3 weeks is too many, make it 1 week.

I hate long posts...
This is a great post!!

one thing to consider when dealing with sponsors is manpower.

I can remember three completely different operations I helped put together. One involved different Govt/municipal organizations and another (much bigger critical incident) included govt/municipal and some local private companies and non profits and the third was a nation wide operation that had a budget in the tens of millions. That utilized all the above.

manpower was in shorter supply than money or materials. And sadly it was volunteer manpower that was needed.

The end result was a “request (requirement lol)” for sponsors of the biggest event, and all of the stakeholders to help recruit and provide volunteer staffing. And for them to independantly support their supposed volunteers. Although the events logistic did often always include a lodging, food and transportation portion of the operations.

but there is no reason that each of those names around fish face on his YouTube page (who I’m assuming are also sponsors of the race) can’t be asked to supply 5-10 volunteers for the event.

“on road safety timing brought to you by King and PCI”
All in their special colored score kit featuring their company logo.

it’s not just money needed.
 

J Prich

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I just watched the Fishgistics wrap...glad Fish does this and glad the bit timers show up to somewhat candidly share their thoughts.

1 - I'm an Alan Ampudia fan.

2 - Andy brought up a lot of valid concerns IMO regarding the effectiveness of Stella for timing/scoring, especially in light of how many people got penalties and what impact that has on the race, the inconsistency of the penalty decisions in general, and the long amount of time it takes to resolve these issues after a race is done.

3 - So what? In spite of these concerns, if you want to race the "biggest" Baja races, you have to race SCORE so all these guys can complain to SCORE and on the internet but at the end of the day they'll all be back for the 400 and then the 1000. In a perfect world you hope I guess, that SCORE addresses these things but given the fact that some of these things have happened multiple years in a row now, the bottom line is even if they don't people are still going to show up because, it's Baja and they hold the key.
 

mxben

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I just watched the Fishgistics wrap...glad Fish does this and glad the bit timers show up to somewhat candidly share their thoughts.

1 - I'm an Alan Ampudia fan.

2 - Andy brought up a lot of valid concerns IMO regarding the effectiveness of Stella for timing/scoring, especially in light of how many people got penalties and what impact that has on the race, the inconsistency of the penalty decisions in general, and the long amount of time it takes to resolve these issues after a race is done.

3 - So what? In spite of these concerns, if you want to race the "biggest" Baja races, you have to race SCORE so all these guys can complain to SCORE and on the internet but at the end of the day they'll all be back for the 400 and then the 1000. In a perfect world you hope I guess, that SCORE addresses these things but given the fact that some of these things have happened multiple years in a row now, the bottom line is even if they don't people are still going to show up because, it's Baja and they hold the key.

Lets be real. The big money racers hold the keys. TT teams can effect change if wanted/needed.

Watch them leave and the series dies. Don't @ me.
 

J Prich

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Lets be real. The big money racers hold the keys. TT teams can effect change if wanted/needed.

Watch them leave and the series dies. Don't @ me.
Yeah I don’t disagree. That’s kind of what I’m saying in a different way. If Score doesn’t fix things you’re mad about but you keep going there to race…it is what it is.
 

mxben

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Yeah I don’t disagree. That’s kind of what I’m saying in a different way. If Score doesn’t fix things you’re mad about but you keep going there to race…it is what it is.

Yeah exactly. Its the place to race for sure. Beats the hell out of the Nevada desert in August.

I think they are flexible and want to make the racers happy. The system they have now works most of the time.
 

dan200

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Well, kinda like SCORE, NASCAR offers no clarity to the lug nut rule other than to state that the nuts must be "safe and secure" in the post race inspection.
2 Ugga Duggas has always worked for us...


torque-to-spec-isthat-oneugga-duggaor-two-29566220.png
 

Old Truck Guy

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Thank you guys. You helped greatly in proving a point.
The point being that no matter what case a person makes, excuses he may have for his actions, what he claims as facts, or the plea he makes that he is not serving only one team, there will be some one out there that either knows the facts, or witnessed something different than he claims. The off road community is so vast that no one is immune to exposure. To say that the precedent this sets allows for others to rely on the same excuse that this chaser used here to nullify blame and/or penalties to those he served carries no weight. It wont be so easy for the next guy. I don't know why SCORE fell so short here, aggressively penalizing teams (Andy/ Luke) who supported the sport for so long.
Now, a paradigm shift....I always felt great discomfort and vulnerability racing in Mexico. I once asked my cousin whom I have built and crewed his race car for years as we raced down south a simple question.... Is it worth losing everything just to race in Mexico. Are you willing to lose your race car and tow vehicle, and potential fines and jail time to a vulture praying on your property and prosperity just so you can race Baja? This is a racer who nearly lost his life to targeted booby traps while racing there. . He responded with a hell yes. For some reason, it is the racers crack. Can't live without it.
I remember years back when crew members on their way back to the states after supporting the Mc M effort were victims to a horrific lawless act in mexico. The family being so appalled just quit racing there for a period of time. They have returned only to be crapped upon once again. Still, here they are. F SCORE and the politics down south. Cops, locals, banditos, and even the race promoter craps upon you with blatant disregard. Still, I can't wait to follow the 1000. Ouch, can I have another please?
 

One-Eyed Peter

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Chase truck incident... Seems there's those who believe he was chasing team X, those who believe he was chasing team Y, and that he was there to help multiple teams and deliver non-race parts (seems like a stretch, but OK). Basically not enough to convict any team. So what do you do?
Because of IGram posts I'd say maybe he was chasing a team with multiple trucks. If that's true that team could very easily claimed the chaser was chasing their B truck. And if that's the case that teams owner/driver, not being in the points hunt, could have looked good and been positive for his sponsors even by owning it.
"Chevy was chasing me, not him, and I accept full responsibility, DQ me, I'm very sorry, it won't happen again".
Points don't matter in this guys case.
Currently he get's nothing except laughs for wanking it crossing the Mikes stream.
Someone had him in Baja. I doubt he paid his own rooms.
Regardless if we've all done stupid sheet too, in this day it's the public perception of what happened and we shouldn't make it look like we're not considerate to the local people.

Numbers on chase trucks.... Aint gonna work. There's a S-ton of trucks out there with numbers of teams they aren't helping just cuz it looks cool. F that. We don't have numbers or logos on any of our stuff, low profile. And the number on the front windshield corner, so what, you'd never read that in a photo.

How about this, DON'T DRIVE LIKE A D1CK!
Like Art said, plan to be there early, expect to be there late.

CRB.... It's made up of current and former racers and sometimes knowledgeable industry guy, yes some in the same class (as being tried), I believe they try to not have more than 1 guy from any specific class (like 1 biker, 1 5/16, 1 TT, 1 SLites, 1 utv), and they all know if someone has a bias or not and those people (it's been me before) are asked to leave the room during that specific case.
I don't believe anyone withOUT knowledge of Baja routes and race situations is invited because sometimes you need to make a call about a certain area.
From what I can gather, this past CRB had on it, but not limited to, 1 TT Cam, 1 former bike racer, 1 former bike racer now sometimes car racer, 1 UTV, not sure who else.
They change around who is on CRB but also keep some of the same people because they've proven knowledgeable, unbiased, open minded, and can verbalize their pov.

#1... A much as I hate to say it, the penalty is probably right. I'm guessing the CRB voted that it really isn't us racers or what happened but about the local public perception of what happened. Luke did not "get roasted for something that was nothing", it's possible it's not about us. Bummer yes, but those that want to shut us down don't need more ammo, we freely give them plenty.

#31... Again some are convinced he hit the car, some are sure he did not. Is there proof he hit the civilian? I don't think so. I'd say if he did hit it then you MUST DQ. But maybe there's no proof so the CRB voted penalty only. Again, perception.

"Rules"... Baja racing is a different sorta thing and no way can you have black and white rules for everything. Well, pitting on the highway, OK, pretty simple....

Really interesting videos out there about Stella tracker units... Some are fast and some are slow, wow, I never realized.

People whining about racing on the highway or not paying landowners to race on their dirt... Yeah used to be WFO on highways, talk about crazy. My 1st 1000 when I was 16 years old we raced out to Ojos, all on asphalt, with wet road, as the sun was rising, passing civilians and chase trucks, then did it the same coming back in. Cheesnrice that was dumb.
Some asphalt sections used to be so long teams would pit at both ends to run street tires only for that section.
We've also started/finished HOUR+ away from Ensenada multiple times.
Baja's growing and private land is changing. I'm stoked SCORE has done as well as they do keeping as much dirt as they possibly can.
* iirc 1996 we had to "clock in" hitting the free road at La Mision and "clock out" at the dirt at Rosarito. It was safe. But it takes manpower. I guesstimate this 500 would have taken 50 VOLUNTEERS to do timing in the big timed sections (like not San Quintin, too short). Who's going to collect 60 (cuz 10 are gonna cancel at the last minute) people? Do they pay their own room and gas? I can easily see this costing SCORE $10,000 to make happen. Who's paying for that? @Fifty this might be your calling. This is another (I used to write a lot of letters to Sal about racing stuff) subject I wrote a letter to Sal about years ago, about exactly how to make it work and be fair and remove the human "mistake" element.

And while I'm ranting, SILT beds... They weren't silt when the course was marked. It will never happen, but maybe 750HP and 40's should be replaced by 150HP max and 35's max. With all these crazy VCPs the homework is way limited and 3 weeks is too many, make it 1 week.

I hate long posts...
MOST INTERESTING TIM.png
 

jon coleman

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what is the percentage of overall happy racers & overall ' score hates me ' racers??, bet the ratio is at least a100 to one, race promoting looks like trying to heard a group of ferral cats, cant wait till the 400😀
 

Bro_Gill

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If the west wasn’t on fire for the 500 how about an $xxx.xx surcharge per team and get some water drops on the silt beds from a helo or a fixed wing plane, base it in Ensenada for the day before the race, could cover them in a day easy!

Truly an option for the mill during the fire “off season”??

discuss
First, the cost for a helo or fixed wing for a day FLYING, not sitting at an airport, with the ability to drop water would cost ech team about 2-3k on the low end.

Second, the amount of water they drop would NOT fix the problem for multiple reasons, t would take a couple pages to cover them all.

Third, November may not be fire season in northern Az., but The only 1,000s I have missed since since 1999 were due to large fire assignments in southern California. I have spent Christmases om large fires in Socal, so there would be no guaranty that any of these flying machines would be available.

So no, truly not an option.
 
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