351w stroked to a 418 have timing problem

[rayschooley]

I had a 351w built for my truck and it ran great for the first 100 miles then I started having timing problems. I ate up a mallory distributor and went to a pro billet msd. truck dyno was done ran great loaded it on trailer and when I got to the desert it wouldn't run, started poping. Took it back to the shop and they said someone changed the timing. Didn't happen. so they reset the timing and I loaded it again for another desert run and same thing happened. Wouldn't run timing changed again. I did some research on the net and think it is cam walk but not for sure. Also timing gear premature wear.

any ideas and who really knows ford windsors?? Any help would be appreciated. Shop??

Thanks
Ray

 

[scottm]

Are you running a high volume oil pump? They put a huge and unnecessary load on the distributor drive gear, and the torque can rotate the dist and alter timing. Plus the pump load wears out the gears and shaft bushings. If your bearing clearances are normal, hi vol pumps provide absolutely no benefits. They are probably the biggest fraud in engine building. Either way put a mark on the dist body so you can see if it is moving after being set.

 

[partybarge_pilot]

So what did you eat up on the Mallory dist? Steel distributor gears on a cast cam will wear the teeth quickly.

A HV pump shouldn't be a problem, I have used them for years without problems.

Cam walk takes a while to happen unless the cam gear is loose.....

 

[rayschooley]

So what did you eat up on the Mallory dist? Steel distributor gears on a cast cam will wear the teeth quickly.

A HV pump shouldn't be a problem, I have used them for years without problems.

Cam walk takes a while to happen unless the cam gear is loose.....

The Mallory destroyed the inside of the distributor under the cap. It does have a high volume pump and we are running hd 40 wt oil kendall. I will also try marking the distributor. Some one told me to go to a crank trigger. Seems like lot of trouble. Anyway I am looking for someone that can fix it.

thanks

 

[Race8100]

So what did you eat up on the Mallory dist? Steel distributor gears on a cast cam will wear the teeth quickly.

This is likely the problem. Cam needs to match the gear on the dist. I forget how it goes, but I think a bronze gear will work on either cast or forged cam, but not sure.

 

[JEFFRPM]

If your running a billet cam [roller] you need the bronze drive gear on the distributor
If its a cast cam run the steel gear on the dist. What exactly is happening "under the cap" is the shaft climbing up and distroying the cap & rotor if it is the roll pin on the shaft holding the thrust plate is failing from WAY to much load on the gear caused by pump drag that I have never seen before HV pumps and 40W oil will not do this unless It's 10 degrees or less where you live or the pump is coming apart.

 

[Ziggy]

Also with the use of a bronze gear I have always drilled a 1/16th hole in the engine plug(in the block) directly across from the bronze gear so it gets plenty of lubrication.Under pressure it squirts a tiny stream of oil directly onto the gear.

 

[rayschooley]

If your running a billet cam [roller] you need the bronze drive gear on the distributor
If its a cast cam run the steel gear on the dist. What exactly is happening "under the cap" is the shaft climbing up and distroying the cap & rotor if it is the roll pin on the shaft holding the thrust plate is failing from WAY to much load on the gear caused by pump drag that I have never seen before HV pumps and 40W oil will not do this unless It's 10 degrees or less where you live or the pump is coming apart.

We went thru the matching the gear to the cam. Should be right. Whats odd is when iI loaded it on the trailer it is steep incline and I could hear it start the poping, this was right after dyno. When I pulled it from the trailer timing off. I was thinking cam walk from the gravity. Anyway Danzio had been recommended in the San Diego area, anyone else that really know's ford windsors and can fix.

Thanks for the help.
Ray

 

[partybarge_pilot]

Closer to you would probably be Greg down at Total Performance. Does excelent work and knows Fords well.

 

[Wild bill]

Before you go to a lot of trouble, pull the distibutor and look at the gear. The roll pin probably is bent or broke that holds the gear to the shaft. Fords are notorious for breaking the roll pins, especially of you are running a high volume oil pump. My BBF did this and a bigger roll pin fixed it.

 

[yotatoy]

Closer to you would probably be Greg down at Total Performance. Does excelent work and knows Fords well.

X2 Greg is the man

 

[mkiefer]

X3 Sam built this one right Ray?

 

[rayschooley]

X3 Sam built this one right Ray?

Correct, now I need someone reliable to fix it.

thanks

 

[NV Racer]

This is one of the best informed forums I have ever read. Every scenario seems to have been suggested. You didn't say exactly what happened to the Mallory distributor but if you send it in to me I would be glad to go through it and make sure it will hold up better in the future to your application. Do you run a locked advance? I have a new distributor that might work even better for your truck.
Shawn

 

[David Kennedy]

I don't have a solution for you, but I might have another cause for you to consider. What timing chain set are you using?

I wonder if you have a steel camshaft gear, and are still using the factory cast-iron camshaft thrust plate?

I was caught off guard by the fact that Ford offers two timing chain sets that will work in these engines:
M-6268-A302 and
M-6268-B302

The only difference between the two is that the "B302" part number uses a camshaft sprocket that is made from steel "for maximum competition engines". Using the steel camshaft gear-equipped M-6268-B302 timing set requires that you also use a hardened camshaft thrust plate (part number M-6269-A351.)

I found this out the hard way when I inadvertently put the steel camshaft gear-equipped M-6268-B302 timing set in my '96 351W, and began wondering why I got charged so much for the timing chain kit. It turns out that I thought I was buying the cast-iron camshaft gear-equipped M-6268-A302 (which would have worked with my engine's cast-iron camshaft thrust plate) but I really got the steel camshaft gear-equipped M-6268-B302 timing set--that was destined to cause me problems.

I don't know if the problem would have shown up like what you're experiencing, but it seems possible. I tore my timing cover back off and installed the steel thrust plate in the engine before I ever fired it up. I think It's worth checking into, especially if you you think you paid more than you should have for the timing chain.