5-1600 talk

<Cody Agee>

Whippersnapper!
Posts
1,184
Reaction
160
I think you should have gone in a different direction. Instead of attempting to create a new class, the smart thing to do would have been to build your "affordable chassis" for 5-1600 and we could build up the 5-1600 class. But what do I know, I just want to race against more cars haha
 

ACME

Well-Known Member
Posts
3,952
Reaction
2,142
Re: Who's goin racing in a new Crumco 5 car?

I.m just waiting for someone smart enough to start a new Class called 1/2-1600 Lites. Stock 1600cc motor and a Type I Stock Transaxle - it will be cheaper! 100s will enter!
Isn't that a Snore "Champ Car" which costs @ the same as a 9 car? Why does everyone want to build a new car for a new unproven class? Why not just buy or build a car for an existing class that's within your specific budget??? For @ the same price you could find an older 12, sportsman or a 16 and race it anywhere?
 

harleys dad

Well-Known Member
Posts
5,157
Reaction
1,554
Re: Who's goin racing in a new Crumco 5 car?

Isn't that a Snore "Champ Car" which costs @ the same as a 9 car? Why does everyone want to build a new car for a new unproven class? Why not just buy or build a car for an existing class that's within your specific budget??? For @ the same price you could find an older 12, sportsman or a 16 and race it anywhere?
Except for the frame and body how on earth can anybody compair the cost of a class 9 car that is equell to the cheapest dune buggy you can find, swing axel balljoint LOLand equell it to a 1600 car or even a old 1600 car. Where except maybe the torsion bars in the rear does expence play a part in a class 9 suspension?? Oh yea I forgot, 2 ball joint size shocks and a 2.5 smooth bodyLOL It is laughable to compair the 2. Just because idiots ask 15-25000 for a nine car does not make one worth that. When a rack and pinion has to be the most expencive part of a front end I question were any class 9 can come close to any 1600 as far as expence old or new No way. I personally would take a champ car a thousand times over a 9 car, at least you can run good parts like chrommoly beam spindles-arms-links-IRS-Bus transmission instead of what most throw in the trash and a swing axel and a to short wheelbase LOL Not even close. I have nothing against class 9 what so ever, but to compair class 9 to a snore champ car and talk like they are even just does not jive
 
Posts
7,201
Reaction
3,507
Re: Who's goin racing in a new Crumco 5 car?

Isn't that a Snore "Champ Car" which costs @ the same as a 9 car? Why does everyone want to build a new car for a new unproven class? Why not just buy or build a car for an existing class that's within your specific budget??? For @ the same price you could find an older 12, sportsman or a 16 and race it anywhere?
It is good to see some people take me seriously around here, even when I am not being serious, seriously!
 

harleys dad

Well-Known Member
Posts
5,157
Reaction
1,554
Re: Who's goin racing in a new Crumco 5 car?

I think they should kill off the new 5/1600s and go back to the way they were. Still a lot of old ones around
 

swiftracing5

Well-Known Member
Posts
2,504
Reaction
1,912
Re: Who's goin racing in a new Crumco 5 car?

I think they should kill off the new 5/1600s and go back to the way they were. Still a lot of old ones around
Whats the new and old 5/16? Seems like the only thing thats changed is 5 open.
 

<Cody Agee>

Whippersnapper!
Posts
1,184
Reaction
160
Re: Who's goin racing in a new Crumco 5 car?

Whats the new and old 5/16? Seems like the only thing thats changed is 5 open.
power steering, disk brakes, bypass shocks all the new technology.... the class like everything has evolutionized and in my opinion is alot of fun!! but i have never driven an old era 5-1600. dave how about you say you would like 75 5-1600's to show up to a race then to get rid of the new cars jajaja
 

harleys dad

Well-Known Member
Posts
5,157
Reaction
1,554
Re: Who's goin racing in a new Crumco 5 car?

power steering, disk brakes, bypass shocks all the new technology.... the class like everything has evolutionized and in my opinion is alot of fun!! but i have never driven an old era 5-1600. dave how about you say you would like 75 5-1600's to show up to a race then to get rid of the new cars jajaja
It is obvios that the 5/1600 class is nothing like it was, it costs a small fortune to build a 5/1600 these days and the small entries show it. Maybe some are comfy with small to very small entries most places they go. The reason 5/1600 was so large before was the fact that almost anybody could build a double shock stock rear arm baja bug with drum brakes type 2 CVs and a Rack and pinion steering with a smooth 8-10 inch shock and compete. The class for the most part died when they allowed all the micro stubs and other goodies that most could not afford. Evolution as you call it wiped the class out. And the thought that class 9 is beating the Baja bugs now with all the updates most of the time blows my mind. I have to laugh at how excited some get with 20-25, we didnt have to coax and beg and plead with sponsors to add to the pot to try and get people to race and racers to come to one certain race to have a semi middle of the road entry like that. It was the most competitive class going, anywhere you went. I have been lucky to race 3 different so called "hay days", class 11-then 5/1600-then 1600. There certainly is nothing more special done to a class 9 car with a ball joint front end and a swing axel rear,exept a resivor shock no mater how class 9 lovers try and pump it up. how is it they run better than a 5/1600 with all your updates most of the time Cody?? Makes me wonder. I would bet a large one if 5/1600 rules were like they were 10-15 years ago it would be one of the largest classes racing, just like it was then! Evolving a great thing killed it and left most in the garage.
 

ACME

Well-Known Member
Posts
3,952
Reaction
2,142
Re: Who's goin racing in a new Crumco 5 car?

It is good to see some people take me seriously around here, even when I am not being serious, seriously!
Take you serious ;) ???? My point is everytime someone has an idea or they feel their car is uncompetitive a new class is started somewhere and your comment just drove that point home... Like someone said: "going to a gun fight with a knife"... Again why not build or buy a car for an existing class that's already got comp instead of hoping another class catches fire? Since we're on the topic of new classes, Here's two new classes for the internet racer: Unlimited Keyboard", for the guy who doesn't race but is compelled to bandwagon and post their wisdom on every topic and "KeyboardLite" for those who choose PDA's as their vehicle of choice...
 

NIKAL

Well-Known Member
Posts
3,761
Reaction
1,352
Re: Who's goin racing in a new Crumco 5 car?

It is obvios that the 5/1600 class is nothing like it was, it costs a small fortune to build a 5/1600 these days and the small entries show it. Maybe some are comfy with small to very small entries most places they go. The reason 5/1600 was so large before was the fact that almost anybody could build a double shock stock rear arm baja bug with drum brakes type 2 CVs and a Rack and pinion steering with a smooth 8-10 inch shock and compete. The class for the most part died when they allowed all the micro stubs and other goodies that most could not afford. Evolution as you call it wiped the class out. And the thought that class 9 is beating the Baja bugs now with all the updates most of the time blows my mind. I have to laugh at how excited some get with 20-25, we didnt have to coax and beg and plead with sponsors to add to the pot to try and get people to race and racers to come to one certain race to have a semi middle of the road entry like that. It was the most competitive class going, anywhere you went. I have been lucky to race 3 different so called "hay days", class 11-then 5/1600-then 1600. There certainly is nothing more special done to a class 9 car with a ball joint front end and a swing axel rear,exept a resivor shock no mater how class 9 lovers try and pump it up. how is it they run better than a 5/1600 with all your updates most of the time Cody?? Makes me wonder. I would bet a large one if 5/1600 rules were like they were 10-15 years ago it would be one of the largest classes racing, just like it was then! Evolving a great thing killed it and left most in the garage.
Dave as we have talked you know that I have not been the biggest fan of many of the updates (Power Steering) the 5/1600 have been given over the last few years. But it is Evolution of the class, like every class has gotten. Every update the 5/1600 have been given so have the 1600's, and the 1600's get these updates at least as year or two before the 5/1600 do.

So do you feel these updates have killed the 1600 class? I know you have taken advantage of every update the 1600 class has been given on your 1600 cars. Also SNORE made a Champions class for older 1600 cars that are considered out of date. If as many racers feel the way you do about the classes evolution, I wonder why the SNORE Champion class has not had better, growing entries? Maybe there are just not as many older cars out there as everyone once thought there was? Or maybe most of those cars have had updates over the years as the 1600 class has evolved?

IMO the classes that have had major changes and in turn have effected the overall class counts would be classes 7s, 7 and 8. Look at those trucks from the late 80's threw the 90's and now. Those three classes have evolved more in my mind then any of the Score classes. You can take an older 1600 or 5/1600 and update it with shocks, micro's ect.. fairly easily compared to trying to update a 90's class 7 truck to fit today's rules and be competitive.
 
Posts
7,201
Reaction
3,507
Re: Who's goin racing in a new Crumco 5 car?

My mistake; I didn't know this was your thread. I'll start a new one about the Newset, Bestest Class - 1/2-1600 Lite.


When I get around to it.

P.s. Everyone, unless you are going to race a crummy(sp?) car - DO NOT POST HERE!

Holy smokes I got some heavy weights making seriously serious statements. To those that are offended by my simple thread that started with a simple question. I make no apoligy. Heck I just saw the add that stated there was a bunch bein built and wanted to know who was buildin them. Now I have highly respected folks coming in with this and that about the history of desert racing and how it's been tainted by all the changes.Why one class is better than another class, and that class was great untill they allowed this to happen. Don't get me wrong I appreciate all your enthusiasm and knowledge...But. Guys I like 5 cars I like the way they look, yeah there not as cool as TT or CL1 or as fast as a 10 or 12 car. I know there aren't as many entered as the other classes, but I can't help it everytime I see a great looking 5 unlimited car I just gotta stare. So when I saw the add by Crumco and thought they looked cool, I was intrigued and just wanted to see who was doing what with these bitchen (IMHO) lookin cars. So once again I ask a simple question who's goin racing in a Crumco 5 car? Please feel free to chime in with pictures of your build, thank you and that is all.
 

ACME

Well-Known Member
Posts
3,952
Reaction
2,142
Re: Who's goin racing in a new Crumco 5 car?

My mistake; I didn't know this was your thread. I'll start a new one about the Newset, Bestest Class - 1/2-1600 Lite.


When I get around to it.

P.s. Everyone, unless you are going to race a crummy(sp?) car - DO NOT POST HERE!
Ramsey, please start this new thread immediatley so I can bash it and this "Newest, Bestest Class -1/2-1600 Lite", who's building a car for it and without pics the thread is worthless ;)

Thanks for your input and reply and I do respect your opinion. I just wanted to get my little insignificant thread back on track. Maybe I shouldn't have used one of your replys as an example, I certainly didn't mean to single you out or ACME for that matter. OOOOPPPS my bad, forgive me.
Forgiven ;)
 
Posts
7,201
Reaction
3,507
Re: Who's goin racing in a new Crumco 5 car?

I love Baja Bugs, raced 5-1600 for years and got my start there. Raced Class 5 also in a JIMCO with a 091 in it, so that is why I waded in on the transmission issue when someone brought it up. Found out once again that people like to make their own mistakes and not learn from others. ...and then there is the issue of new Classes and trying to make racing affordable (oxymoron) that every few months resurfaces. It is somewhat Darwinian; you know survival of the fittest. There is a reason that cars and classes have evolved to the state that they have.
 

harleys dad

Well-Known Member
Posts
5,157
Reaction
1,554
Re: Who's goin racing in a new Crumco 5 car?

Dave as we have talked you know that I have not been the biggest fan of many of the updates (Power Steering) the 5/1600 have been given over the last few years. But it is Evolution of the class, like every class has gotten. Every update the 5/1600 have been given so have the 1600's, and the 1600's get these updates at least as year or two before the 5/1600 do.

So do you feel these updates have killed the 1600 class? I know you have taken advantage of every update the 1600 class has been given on your 1600 cars. Also SNORE made a Champions class for older 1600 cars that are considered out of date. If as many racers feel the way you do about the classes evolution, I wonder why the SNORE Champion class has not had better, growing entries? Maybe there are just not as many older cars out there as everyone once thought there was? Or maybe most of those cars have had updates over the years as the 1600 class has evolved?

IMO the classes that have had major changes and in turn have effected the overall class counts would be classes 7s, 7 and 8. Look at those trucks from the late 80's threw the 90's and now. Those three classes have evolved more in my mind then any of the Score classes. You can take an older 1600 or 5/1600 and update it with shocks, micro's ect.. fairly easily compared to trying to update a 90's class 7 truck to fit today's rules and be competitive.
Yes I updated my 1600 cars,both of them, even though I could compete the way it was, the ride is so much better now I can hardly explane, as well as a ton of others have BUT I was luckey to have a sponcer buy the stuff for me to do it. It is very clear to me that is not the case with 5/1600. 5/1600 just dropped entries. To update a old 5/1600 with all the stuff I did on my 1600 car each is in the 8 grand range doing it myself buying all the stuff new. considering the Micro stub kit that has disk brakes is over 1500 dollars by its self then you have to have new rear arms, of course the torsion bars need to change, then axels-Spring plates then if you are going to do it right you need all the latest up front then power st on top of that. Most didnt have that to throw at a vw baja bug when it took a lot to get where they were. 10 years ago if you would have told me 5/1600 would be averaging 7-8 entries at Barstow or at a Baja 500 I would have said you are nutsno way. A lot of owners I know felt they coudnt keep updating there cars when all the big changes were made because of expence and left them in the garage. MDR even split the 5/1600 class because of 2 cars that updated all the way because the older cars refused to race against them and were going to quit, which they finally did. 5/1600 was always a buget class compaired to 1600 from the very beggining. You could buy a cage kit for a couple of hundred bucks if that, where a bare 1600 frame was then about 3500 dollars and about that much for a body, custom fuel cell was 3-4 times what fit in most Bajas the list goes on. I have done both many times. Most, not all but most of the 5/1600 owners were in a different buget circumstance than 1600 owners. new 1600 cars are still built, that cant be said as much as 5/1600. A lot of people try to compaire the 2 as the same except 1 is a buggy, it is a lot more to build a buggy any day of the week. If I am wrong, then explane why 5/1600 is where it is at. 10 years ago you could be sure that 1600 and 5/1600 were going to be large where ever you went. 1600 is still that way for the most part, 5/1600 is not..class 11 was bigger than 5/1600 at Battle at Primm this year. Heck as far back as 2002 the last time I raced my own 5/1600 there were over 20 at Laughlin and 18 at the Snore 250. That is rite when the rules were starting to go where they are now. 1 race ready 5/1600 showed for laughlin this year and Brent shermak who had a stock motor and transmission in his car to give somebody a ride who at the last moment paid the entry fee. and the Snore races have 5-8 now. Yea sometimes evolving is a good thing, and sometimes it isnt. 1600 yes, 5/1600 I personally think they should have left alone. Do I think a old school 5/1600 can keep up with a up to date car, Yes I do, but I am a small minority that feels that way. Park a up to date car next to a old school car most will automaticly think no way will that old double shock car keep up. I saw that first hand at MDR in 02. Not 1 of those people have raced 5/1600 since they were made to race the updated cars. Todd you have done great getting more 5/1600s out to imperiel valley, I commend you for that.
 

gasit2win

Well-Known Member
Posts
286
Reaction
34
Re: Who's goin racing in a new Crumco 5 car?

It is obvios that the 5/1600 class is nothing like it was, it costs a small fortune to build a 5/1600 these days and the small entries show it. Maybe some are comfy with small to very small entries most places they go. The reason 5/1600 was so large before was the fact that almost anybody could build a double shock stock rear arm baja bug with drum brakes type 2 CVs and a Rack and pinion steering with a smooth 8-10 inch shock and compete. The class for the most part died when they allowed all the micro stubs and other goodies that most could not afford. Evolution as you call it wiped the class out. And the thought that class 9 is beating the Baja bugs now with all the updates most of the time blows my mind. I have to laugh at how excited some get with 20-25, we didnt have to coax and beg and plead with sponsors to add to the pot to try and get people to race and racers to come to one certain race to have a semi middle of the road entry like that. It was the most competitive class going, anywhere you went. I have been lucky to race 3 different so called "hay days", class 11-then 5/1600-then 1600. There certainly is nothing more special done to a class 9 car with a ball joint front end and a swing axel rear,exept a resivor shock no mater how class 9 lovers try and pump it up. how is it they run better than a 5/1600 with all your updates most of the time Cody?? Makes me wonder. I would bet a large one if 5/1600 rules were like they were 10-15 years ago it would be one of the largest classes racing, just like it was then! Evolving a great thing killed it and left most in the garage.
go dave i talked to jimenez last night he said he would help out with a new fire breather i might take him up on it. I hate being on the side lines.
 

harleys dad

Well-Known Member
Posts
5,157
Reaction
1,554
Re: Who's goin racing in a new Crumco 5 car?

go dave i talked to jimenez last night he said he would help out with a new fire breather i might take him up on it. I hate being on the side lines.
You need to Billy, you have to get in on the action
 

<Cody Agee>

Whippersnapper!
Posts
1,184
Reaction
160
It is obvios that the 5/1600 class is nothing like it was, it costs a small fortune to build a 5/1600 these days and the small entries show it. Maybe some are comfy with small to very small entries most places they go. The reason 5/1600 was so large before was the fact that almost anybody could build a double shock stock rear arm baja bug with drum brakes type 2 CVs and a Rack and pinion steering with a smooth 8-10 inch shock and compete. The class for the most part died when they allowed all the micro stubs and other goodies that most could not afford. Evolution as you call it wiped the class out. And the thought that class 9 is beating the Baja bugs now with all the updates most of the time blows my mind. I have to laugh at how excited some get with 20-25, we didnt have to coax and beg and plead with sponsors to add to the pot to try and get people to race and racers to come to one certain race to have a semi middle of the road entry like that. It was the most competitive class going, anywhere you went. I have been lucky to race 3 different so called "hay days", class 11-then 5/1600-then 1600. There certainly is nothing more special done to a class 9 car with a ball joint front end and a swing axel rear,exept a resivor shock no mater how class 9 lovers try and pump it up. how is it they run better than a 5/1600 with all your updates most of the time Cody?? Makes me wonder. I would bet a large one if 5/1600 rules were like they were 10-15 years ago it would be one of the largest classes racing, just like it was then! Evolving a great thing killed it and left most in the garage.
dave i agree with you. 5-1600 has gotten expensive and it is harder to be competitive now than it used to be. One guy who is a freak of nature passing me after 100 miles when he started 5 minutes behind me isn't the greatest trophy to hold but hey it was my first race in a 5-1600 and i was more focused on finishing and getting comfortable with the car than anything. Haha i dont know how 9's run faster than 5-1600s because THEY DON'T. I think that you are disappointed in the fact that the number of car entries has declined severely. The problem is people are out to make money and run their own series and all the cars are split apart. If you want cars to go back how they were than i dont know what to tell you. I hate the fact everyone is trying to make new classes so I wouldn't consider that as an option. The parts are getting more and more expensive and if you really want to race it looks like you will be racing an 11 or 9. I didnt make the rules Dave I just acquired a car that happened to be legal and fast and I am enjoying off road racing sorry for ruining how it used to be like in the 80's.
 

<Cody Agee>

Whippersnapper!
Posts
1,184
Reaction
160
Re: Who's goin racing in a new Crumco 5 car?

It is true though Dave if you are going to build a car based around a 1600cc motor it should be a 1600 car over a 5-1600 no need to put a roof on and all the same parts. You have to look at the motives for building one or the other. Right now if you had say plus or minus 50 grand to build a brand new car would you go 1600 or 5-1600? Same parts same everything just no body pains when you flip it over. To build the 5-1600 class it would make sense to take the cars back to what they used to be to create that barrier between them and 1600
 

harleys dad

Well-Known Member
Posts
5,157
Reaction
1,554
Re: Who's goin racing in a new Crumco 5 car?

dave i agree with you. 5-1600 has gotten expensive and it is harder to be competitive now than it used to be. One guy who is a freak of nature passing me after 100 miles when he started 5 minutes behind me isn't the greatest trophy to hold but hey it was my first race in a 5-1600 and i was more focused on finishing and getting comfortable with the car than anything. Haha i dont know how 9's run faster than 5-1600s because THEY DON'T. I think that you are disappointed in the fact that the number of car entries has declined severely. The problem is people are out to make money and run their own series and all the cars are split apart. If you want cars to go back how they were than i dont know what to tell you. I hate the fact everyone is trying to make new classes so I wouldn't consider that as an option. The parts are getting more and more expensive and if you really want to race it looks like you will be racing an 11 or 9. I didnt make the rules Dave I just acquired a car that happened to be legal and fast and I am enjoying off road racing sorry for ruining how it used to be like in the 80's.
Cody you have not ruined anything, enjoy what you do. I love racing Baja bugs It is unfortunate that 5/1600 cant support all the races and series like it once did. You made a great point when you said 5/1600 should have a barrier but now the minority has run off the majority and nothing can be done about it. The harm has been big as the entries show just like it shows there still is a lot of Baja bugs that seam to come out to MDR in the Imperial valley for the new years race. Now they are wanting to add a 3rd Baja bug class(shaking my head). This is nothing against Crumco what so ever, it trully is a good deal for what is listed and Sure the cage and rear arm-disc brake-shock mounts beam will get some real excited, untill the price of everything to finish one comes into the picture, even if those things were free it will be a fortune to finish one, not pocket change. Makes me wonder how many will languish in the garage after they find out how big the sticker shock is to finish one, even with deals on things.. How many of you could out fit one of these cars after you had what is listed, I am guessing not many. With all the stuff I have I couldnt. Good luck.
 

MALABANAN

Well-Known Member
Posts
1,040
Reaction
214
Danny Ledezma can pass anyone in a 5/1600, he has dual smooth body 2.0's!!! No disc brakes and no power steering!!! Please explain!!! Oh yeah, he can drive!!! FEAR GOD!!! That's his saying... He updated the Gutierrez Racing bug and BajaJag...Come get some in September, MDR Plaster City.
 
Top