5-1600's are faster than 10's, 8's and PT...

rdc

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5-1600\'s are faster than 10\'s, 8\'s and PT...

<font color=green>This forum is getting a little boring.</font color=green>

<font color=red>5-1600’s should start in front of all the Pro Trucks, and I have the stats to prove it.</font color=red>

As recent as the 1996 Baja 500, Ross Craft and I finished 21st overall in the “Bird Cage” Ross’ 16 year-old Baja Bug. That was my last time driving a 5-1600. We beat the class of 22 starters by 55 minutes (we even took a 15 to 20 minute break in Ojos Negros on the way back because we knew we had a big lead) and we beat the fastest Pro Truck by 70 minutes. Don’t feel bad PT guys, we beat all the class 5, 7, 7S cars as well. We would have been 5th in class 10 with 23 starters, 4th in class ½-1600 with 12 starters. Only three of the 7 class 8’s beat us and they finished 3,5,8 O/A.

OK, so we had a perfect race, and you can see finishing order has nothing to do with determining starting order so leave the 5-1600’s at the back.

Starting order is more a function of common sense than speed. Tradition must have some bearing, I am sure. But safety must be the overriding concern. What would be a safer start? The 8’s and PT’s working their way though all but the fastest 10 cars (that could easily be 15 to 18 slower 10’s) in the first 50 dusty miles. Or, would it be safer to have the fastest 10’s have to pass the slower of the 8’s and PT’s (maybe 4 or 5 10 cars having to pass 4 or 5 trucks) in the first 50 dusty miles.

Again, finishing order has nothing to do with it. The problem is the start of the race before everything gets spread out. Don’t forget the rear cage to approaching truck factor. I would rather be “tapped” by a 10 car in a truck than by a truck in a 10 car. I've driven both, so trust me on that one.

What do you think?

<FORM METHOD=POST ACTION="http://www.race-dezert.com/cgi-bin/wwwthreads/dopoll.pl"><INPUT TYPE=HIDDEN NAME="pollname" VALUE="996742717Ramsey">
<font color=red>What is the safest starting order?</font color=red>
<INPUT TYPE=RADIO NAME=option VALUE="1"> TT,1,8,PT,10
<INPUT TYPE=RADIO NAME=option VALUE="2"> TT,1,8,10,PT
<INPUT TYPE=RADIO NAME=option VALUE="3"> TT,1,10,PT,8
<INPUT TYPE=RADIO NAME=option VALUE="4"> TT,1,10,8,PT
<INPUT TYPE=RADIO NAME=option VALUE="5"> TT,1,PT,10,8
<INPUT TYPE=RADIO NAME=option VALUE="6"> TT,1,PT,8,10
<INPUT TYPE=RADIO NAME=option VALUE="7"> TT,8,PT,1,10
<INPUT TYPE=RADIO NAME=option VALUE="8"> 1,10,TT,8,PT
<INPUT TYPE=RADIO NAME=option VALUE="9"> TT,1,5-1600,8,10,PT
<INPUT TYPE=SUBMIT NAME="PollSubmit" VALUE="$lang{'SUB_VOTE'}" CLASS="buttons"></FORM>

Ramsey
 

Josh_Westwood

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Re: 5-1600\'s are faster than 10\'s, 8\'s and PT...

I would have to agree with you on this one.
 

scott

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Re: 5-1600\'s are faster than 10\'s, 8\'s and PT...

I like TT, CL 1, CL 10, PT, CL 8.................
 

Jimmy8

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Re: 5-1600\'s are faster than 10\'s, 8\'s and PT...

This is a hard subject in my opinion. The fastest trucks, other than TT's, mostly run BITD, and the fastest buggies run SCORE. I mean look at the entries at the average BITD race, and they are mostly trucks, and the average entries at a SCORE race and there are a lot more buggies than trucks. The Baja 500 this year was a little different. I think because of this point, the different organizations start the vehicles in different orders.
 

rdc

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10\'s, 8\'s and PT Poll Results as of 8/4/01 12AM

The obvious consensus is that Trophy Trucks should start first followed by Class 1. So what about Class 8, 10 and Protruck? If three points are awarded per vote for a class to start first, and two points to start next, and one for starting last the results are clear.

Class 8 --------- 96 points
Protruck---------89 points
Class 10--------87 points

TT,1,8,PT,10 is the way you voted, maybe SCORE is doing it right…


Ramsey
 

Outhouseracing

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Re: 10\'s, 8\'s and PT Poll Results as of 8/4/01 12AM

Hello??? Did you guys forget about the 1/2 1600 cars??? They are super fast cars. They should start in front of the trucks! All the trucks do is get in the way of us..
 

mgobaja

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Re: 10\'s, 8\'s and PT Poll Results as of 8/4/01 12AM

I have been involved with class 10,PT,TT and class 1 and 1/2-1600. While with the PT we were always trying to get around the 8 trucks and slower 1 cars. In the TT it's not an issue with any of them unless we have some down time. Class 1 cars seem to always thread their way through the TT and 10 cars seem to either be in the way for the Pro-Trucks or have to pass them depending on the course.The 1/2-1600's are always mixed up with the 10 cars after about 100 miles it seems like. So looking at all of this the way SCORE is doing things may not be so bad after all. Certain cars have GOOD Days and others have BAD Days.
 

El Chinero

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Re: 5-1600\'s are faster than 10\'s, 8\'s and PT...

HEY! Aren't you that 5-1600 Ramsey guy who CUT THE COURSE at the Baja 500? I saw you. You cannot deny it!

Jeez ... what balls. Probably put up to it by Crafty Craft!



Tony T
El Chismoso
 

Josh_Westwood

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Re: 5-1600\'s are faster than 10\'s, 8\'s and PT...

Looks like the starting order will remain the same. And Tony we all know you can't believe everything the press has to say.
 

rdc

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Re: 5-1600\'s are faster than 10\'s, 8\'s and PT...

Tony you caught me! Does that mean I am not your Hero anymore? You were my witness at the '92 500, and we won that one also.

Ramsey
 

pjc

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Re: 5-1600\'s are faster than 10\'s, 8\'s and PT...

Ramsey,

I agree on the speed and agility of the 5-1600's. And I agree that in the mid nineties, they were often quicker than Pro-Trucks but, times have changed and the ProTruck drivers are consisitiently driving these vehicles to the ragged edge of the vehicle limits. Consider that Scott Steinberger finished 13th OA (car/truck) and 35th OA (combined) in the Baja 2000. The nearest 10 car finished 42nd OA (combined), SCORE Light was 60th. The first 5/1600 was 73d OA (combined).

Now for a twist.. Bekki Freeman 1/2 1600 was 24th OA (combined). Jeremy Spirkoff was 29th OA (combined) and Curt LeDuc in a Class 8 was 26th (combined).

PJC

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El Chinero

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Re: 5-1600\'s are faster than 10\'s, 8\'s and PT...

Ramsey! You will ALWAYS be My Hero for that move. For-ever ... still kills me when I think about it!


Scenario:
1992 Baja 500. Road out of Mike's. Almost to Valley T. About the time that you believe the road is wide and fast (similar to The Road to Ensenada) -- and you get a
off-camber
decreasing-radius turn
at the end of l o n g straight

I ran in to help Steve Holladay get his "1" off the manzy. Steve Lawernce's 5-1600 overshot the corner and laucnhed sideways down about 50 feet of VT air.

Ramsey overshoots the corner but does NOT crank the wheel to the left stop. He runs into rare air but straight on.

He collects the 5-1600 amongst the trees, rocks and weeds and gasses it! He drive back UP the 50 -100 back, across the gulley and hits the road for home and the win.

The crowd went wild!

My Hero

Tony T
El Chismoso
 

rdc

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Re: 5-1600\'s are faster than 10\'s, 8\'s and PT...

Once again, finishing order has nothing to do with a safe and sane starting order.

Ramsey
 

rdc

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Re: 5-1600\'s are faster than 10\'s, 8\'s and PT...

Tony,

It was lucky that someone armed with "pen" was there to see that major mistake and recovery. I had enough time at the bottom to radio the team, that we were out of the race. Less than 10 minutes later we showed up at the pit, with no helmets on and only lap belts fastened. The highs and lows of this sport are what it is all about. So much of what happens goes on unrecorded and unnoticed. Offroad Racing would be the most popular form of Motorsports if only a fraction of the crashes, saves, adventures, mishaps, miracles and feats of brilliance could be shared with an audience. There is more to a race than turning left.

Thanks for willing us up the hill...

Ramsey
 

Jimmy8

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Re: 5-1600\'s are faster than 10\'s, 8\'s and PT...

What you said is so true. If people really knew what went on in an off road race, people would be watching Trophy Trucks instead of Nascars. The thing about off road is that it is so hard on equipment it would be impossible to race every weekend. This is truely a drivers sport, and most of the things that would bring people to the sport go unseen except for the drivers stories they have to tell. I heard Kyle Taylor say something after the TT 250 this year that I thought was awesome. They even put it on speedvision. He said "Going around in a circle on an asphalt track or barreling through the desert at 100 mph on a saturday afternoon, I know where I would rather be."
 

rdc

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Re: 10\'s, 8\'s and PT Poll Results as of 8/8/01 12p

Protruck ---- 146
Class 8 ----- 138
Class 10 --- 136

Ramsey
 
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