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50 different classes, really?????

jon coleman

Well-Known Member
i would base all classes on tire size& wheel travel, done.but what about eng?, dont care., 900 hp w 33 10 50s& 12 inch wheel travel, or, 120 hp w 30" of wheel travel and 39" tires, it All balances out.tires& travel period
 

michael.gonzalez

Well-Known Member
I want it the other way. Engine-driven requirements.

Class A: Here is a 2.4/2.5L 4cyl. Everything else is open. [Class 10, 3000, 6000, 5]

Class B: Here is a 6.2L V8. Everything else is open. [Class 6100, 6200]

Class C: Any engine you want. All open. [TT, Class 1]

A-arms, beams, twin i-beams, ttbs, solid axles, IRS, mcpherson strut, sequential manual, h-pattern manual, auto, underdrives, no underdrives. Open wheel or truck body.
None of that matters.
 
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jon coleman

Well-Known Member
trouble w eng. class is That$ wear all the prep ca$$$h goes, you see, i can race cheap on junk engines all day and compete with other welfare case's if im in the 35 15 class, 35" tire, 15" travel, 900 hp , ??, my 450 might givem' a run if im a better piloto, if not, ill drop down to 33 12 class, same trk& eng, when im wining , I'll step back up to 35 15, then, 37 20 , 39 24 .then tt .ooooh, screw it, I'll just race an 11, they seem to always finish....
 

green787

Well-Known Member
I want it the other way. Engine-driven requirements.

Class A: Here is a 2.4/2.5L 4cyl. Everything else is open. [Class 10, 3000, 6000, 5]

Class B: Here is a 6.2L V8. Everything else is open. [Class 6100, 6200]

Class C: Any engine you want. All open. [TT, Class 1]

A-arms, beams, twin i-beams, ttbs, solid axles, IRS, mcpherson strut, sequential manual, h-pattern manual, auto, underdrives, no underdrives. Open wheel or truck body.
None of that matters.
Just flip it over so Class A is Unlimited and class C is 4cyl..... it's an ego thing.....
 

stephenrjking

Well-Known Member
Ok, that's a lot of classes.

The article was about one particular class, though. Trophy Trucks. The premier division of desert racing, that exists under a handful of names depending upon where you are.

So, I'm a "recent arrival" to off road racing, relatively speaking; my account was registered after I caught my first race at Crandon. So when articles (such as the one referenced here) talk about fan growth, they're talking about people like me.

And, speaking for myself, I don't care much that there are 41 or 50 classes or whatever. I'm more inclined to look at basic things like vehicle counts, which tells me something about how seriously competitors take the races they're in.

It's not the classes. It's the sanctioning bodies and types of races that's confusing. The different names for "Trophy Truck?" I can figure that out, but good luck memorizing the list of numbers that you need to understand what division is which when you're looking up the BITD tracker. And good luck figuring out where races rank in importance behind the Baja 1000, too. Is V2R a bigger deal than the T-1 challenge? Can't tell. How does the Mint compare to the Baja 500? No idea.

Off road is a small niche, and it's divided into a dozen tiny sections. This is a strength of sorts, because it provides a lot of variety (Crandon and KOH are both "off road monuments" and feature four-wheel drive and motors and dirt and share almost nothing else in common). It also makes the landscape confusing, though. There isn't a single series to follow. The names of the vehicles are different. TV coverage is bad. What is there to tell "new fans" what to watch for?

I showed up here and started reading threads. Most people here have either been fans for a lot longer than I have or are active participants, though.
 

fastfelix

Well-Known Member

jon coleman

Well-Known Member
demo ed a house on marine street, right around the corner from mitts beach front home, found trash pitt Full of ' san diego 'dairy milk bottles& other various bottles, the 'sd' ones are worth decent cash, went out of business in 27', i was told, im still looking for stashed gold coins from the 30s that were supposed to be turned into govt.
 

Speedster

Well-Known Member
I would say run them in the sportsman truck class just like we had to do with SCORE back in the day. Score or BITD never has a 1400 class it was just sportsman truck class that was there from day 1. We never complained and we ran there.
Fish, Would it be too crazy of an idea to get a rep from each of the major organizations to the table on one of your shows at Cam's shop, and round table some of the questions in this tread? Some popular questions:
1) Could SCORE sell licensing rights for a reasonable price to BITD, Dave, others to use "Trophy Truck" etc?
2) What would it really take to get the same number format for classes at all events?
3) It should seriously be considered to combine all these classes into no more than maybe 10, with a sportsman & pro option for some not all of the classes. Or, 10 "pro" classes and sportsman "run-what-ya brung" for each of: Bike, Quad, UTV, 1600/Eco-Tec Buggy, Big Buggy, 4cyl Truck, Open Truck. Sounds overly simple, but 50 classes some with a few (or less) competitors in each is dumb. Everybody keeps raving about how well Dave is running KOH (and he deserves it). Part of his "secret sauce" me thinks is having just 5 classes.
There are others, but these are likely the top three on most minds, and each would be a win-win for all, for reasons already stated in this thread.
 

Slippery P

Well-Known Member
Just wait, there will soon be 2 TT classes... TT 2wd & TT 4wd...
 

OFFRD-JNKIE

Well-Known Member
I don't think the awd TTs are sustainable for enough people that they will become their own class. Unless you're a super funded team like Menzies or Mcmillins there will be a select few that will be able to maintain them for years but for the most part the 2wd will be where most guys run.
 

fishd00d

What A Joke
Fish, Would it be too crazy of an idea to get a rep from each of the major organizations to the table on one of your shows at Cam's shop, and round table some of the questions in this tread?
That would be awesome and I would totally do it. BUT honestly I think you have a better shot at winning the powerball than that happening. Off Road promoters do not like to work with each other from what I have seen. YES there are SOME exception to this but overall they are all running their own business and they all want the entries at THEIR races so they don't want to help out a different series. In the 20 years i've been racing offroad I am yet to see it different. I am talking mostly about SCORE and BITD, I don't see them working together honestly. Mad Media sure as hell isn't working with BITD anymore and they aren't gonna work with SCORE either so thats out of the question right now lol

Dave would be the only one I would ever bet on working with the others honestly.
 

51rcr

Well-Known Member
Mint and BITD sure made something. i dont know what happend. But it sure shows what can be done. MORE/Snore races also
 

green787

Well-Known Member
There needs to be a sanctioning body that determines the results of all races.... Like the So. Cal. Timing Assc. at El Mirage for the LSR cars..... They have at least 50 different classes, but nobody seems to argue about it....
 

51rcr

Well-Known Member
sometimes businesses working together they grow the whole market and exposure. Some always feel they are doing more and not getting the reward. Think of it as regional or area chamber of commerce or tourist areas or even vegas. They all want you to come and chances are you will go to another if its easier or an event matches up.
 

jon coleman

Well-Known Member
also need to get towns more involved, gotta be an economic boost to some little desert town if a few thousand offroaders show up?, ooops , my bad....
 

green787

Well-Known Member
also need to get towns more involved, gotta be an economic boost to some little desert town if a few thousand offroaders show up?, ooops , my bad....
It's called Temecula.... to Oceanside.... across land that is leased from the Gov. (Camp Pendelton) use the old 1896 Railroad right of way.... Deluz..... Willow Glen.... The Pepper Tree..... We used to race a 26 mile motorcycle race there back in the day....


Hodaka.jpg


Yawn..... the pics are because I talked my dad into coming to the Pepper Tree with his camera to take pics of my older friends doing crazy things in the dirt with their motorcycles.... in 1969.... It was called "dirt bike riding".... That's Larry McDonald on the lower left.... He came back from Vietnam with "shell shock" and could fly that Kawasaki 120, 30 feet..... He never nailed a landing.....
Steve Fuller of Rainbow on the Hodaka.... He could ride a wheely as far as he wanted.....
All of these guys survived their tour of duty in Vietnam..... So they were really "fun" to hang around with....
Usually Milton Davies of Fallbrook Fire Dept would bring out an ambulance and hang out with us....
 
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J Prich

Well-Known Member
sometimes businesses working together they grow the whole market and exposure. Some always feel they are doing more and not getting the reward. Think of it as regional or area chamber of commerce or tourist areas or even vegas. They all want you to come and chances are you will go to another if its easier or an event matches up.
I don't disagree, but I'd say that sometimes businesses don't operate the same way and may make for difficult pairings as well. BITD operates on an efficiency based model. They keep to a relatively simple, refined process that they've evolved over time. Race to race, the process is essentially the same. The Mint has been the complete opposite of that model. Planning for growth and innovation leads to risk, increased overhead, and a more complicated business model. Those two philosophies don't necessarily jive. In spite of the success of the Mint (higher car counts, increased industry partner engagement, etc), BITD didn't adopt any of the innovations brought to the Mint, mainly because it just wasn't their model or a way they want to do business, I'm guessing. They have a system that that works for them and that they have been comfortable with and the Mint model is not that way.

When 1/2 of a team operates from a standpoint of simplicity and consistency and the other 1/2 operates on growth and innovation, those two things are inevitably going to clash.
 
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