55gl drum truck bed fuel tower

MTPyle

Well-Known Member
Bro,

Thanks that makes sense. Like I said I am not engineer. But my Dad has a good set of tools. LOL

Cynic, Yeah that looked bad at first to me also but when it goes in the vent it goes back into the PP. the second Red head is the vent and its a closed system. No reason to have fuel come out of the -8 air vent unless its not set up right. The vent with filter on it is really only to allow air to come back into the tank to replace fuel that the engine used.

The Bucket is just there in case something goes wrong with O ring or vents Which I know has happened and can.

Mike
 

cynicwanderer

Well-Known Member
Bro,

Thanks that makes sense. Like I said I am not engineer. But my Dad has a good set of tools. LOL

Cynic, Yeah that looked bad at first to me also but when it goes in the vent it goes back into the PP. the second Red head is the vent and its a closed system. No reason to have fuel come out of the -8 air vent unless its not set up right. The vent with filter on it is really only to allow air to come back into the tank to replace fuel that the engine used.

The Bucket is just there in case something goes wrong with O ring or vents Which I know has happened and can.

Mike
well, OK I was calling the second redhead connection a vent, is it called the return ? so how will the fuel cell not be under pressure when the return goes back to the PP. Is there a low pressure section in the PP that I'm not seeing ? I understand there is a vent to the fuel cell, which would properly have a check valve so it doesn't dump the fuel on a turnover, but that also means that it will block when you put pressure into the tank. I.e. it only works on suction, when the tank empties and is at lower pressure than ambient pressure.

there are probably some things I'm missing that I didn't catch in the video,
 

MTPyle

Well-Known Member
Cynic,

There is a 5 gallon catch can at the PP. Vince says nobody fills the catch can. figure there is 25ft of 2.25" hose then a 5 gallon catch can, thats a lot of fuel you can watch come out of the vent.

I was also confused about how that worked from the video and had to ask Vince. He said watch the video and I said I did and never saw a catch can. LOL its funny how when you know things you assume its obvious to everyone else. I do it to my wife all the time.

Thanks for playing along, its good to discuss and think it thru.

Mike
 

MTPyle

Well-Known Member
had to look up Debridement, yeah not good.

Bottom line there is risk in any fueling. I personally think towers are dangerous. We have had plenty of spills and issues with dump cans also.

We started with normal dump cans and had a flew spills. Went to Dry break and had just as many spills until we figured it out. One trick we didn't know was using a zip tie to hold the dry break open to vent while its sitting there waiting for the truck to come in.

Then we tried a tower and it was good but scared the heck out of me. So many scary aspects of towers from transfer, lots of vapors, and its really high up.

The PP seems the cleanest system I have seen. We will not have to toucher transfer open fuel the entire day with a PP. Not perfect and still room for error which can be bad but in my opinion its a lesser of all the fuel system evils.

I just figured out the flapper aspect of the cell. You can and should have a flapper on the intake to the cell but you need a steel ball check valve on the vent. So Harmon is making us a new plate with a 2.25" vent with steel ball that will go to the Red Head vent. And then we will have the -8 check valve going to the filter vent on the back of the truck.

Mike
 

cynicwanderer

Well-Known Member
Cynic,

There is a 5 gallon catch can at the PP. Vince says nobody fills the catch can. figure there is 25ft of 2.25" hose then a 5 gallon catch can, thats a lot of fuel you can watch come out of the vent.

I was also confused about how that worked from the video and had to ask Vince. He said watch the video and I said I did and never saw a catch can. LOL its funny how when you know things you assume its obvious to everyone else. I do it to my wife all the time.

Thanks for playing along, its good to discuss and think it thru.

Mike
yeah, me too. I enjoy analyzing things and thinking things through, before jumping in. in one job, I was on a failure analysis team and we could analyze things and assign risk grades... i.e. how likely is it to happen, and if it does will it only damage equipment, potentially injure/kill people or will it take the whole oil platform with it and potentially cause another Deepwater Horizon style incident... fortunately, the scope is more limited here...
 

MAC56

Well-Known Member
I could easily afford to have multiple Pressure
pro units but we see too much risk, as an example you have high pressure co2 directly introduced to the container into cooling coils so that the expansion cooling will not freeze the regulator that reduces the the pressure in the outer housing to the 8 -10 psi that the fuel is pressurized to. This aluminum coil is at co2 bottle pressure so if it gets a crack at a weld you now have fuel in a tank that could be subjected to as much as say 1800 psi that will cause the tank to burst sending mist spray of fuel over a large area. Very very high risk. To use the argument well everyone is using it has nothing to do with risk analysis.
my recommendations to my friend Casey ( founder of BITD rip.) was to ban these type of systems as formula one did.
his decision to allow them was based on his belief that the 4-5 teams that had them would not race Bitd if he told them no and that very few would spend that much so the risk could be minimum.
this sport might not survive a significant pit fire and if Formula One could not make pressurized fuel safe how could we?
Imagine the midway pit at parker if a failure of any pressurized system happens, the loss of life, injuries and liability are hard to accept.
 

MTPyle

Well-Known Member
Mac

thanks for the input. Has there Ever been a failure with a Pressure Pro system built by Vince? Of the 80 systems that are in use is there one failure?

I know many people say they are a bomb and risky. I could see if I was the first to do it but I am not and many have been successful before me.

or is this the world is flat so you better not keep going on the ocean because you might fall off the end of the earth. In other words is the fear substantiated or just fear?

I searched far and wide and can not find any failures.

I read all 29 pages of the thread where Pete said the same thing but that was many years ago. More and more have proven it works but I keep hearing the same fear cry. Give me facts. I am all for joining in the fear if it’s real.

Mike
 

51rcr

Well-Known Member
good luck on eliminating the discriminator valve. BITD always actually looks for that.
Yeah the fuel flap com around from racers fuel caps coming off or not even getting put on or the fuel fill tubes coming off in crashes.
 

dan200

#BSF200
I have been around pressure pros longer than most. The first time I ever had to use one we were racing Roger Normans short lived HDRA race series. I think only the McMillans had them at that point. The one we used that day was borrowed from them. I don't remember the date but we were on the Mint course. I was terrified of the thing. Back then Vince himself would be on site supervising the use of these. I told him he needed to reassure me it wasn't gonna explode. He used fancy words like inert gas and sounded all science like. I cant remember any of it but i do remember feeling reassured.

Currently our squad when we fuel is big. Everyone has only one job if you are in anyway part of the fueling team. Tire/jack guys don't do shiz while the fueling is happening. We are pretty damn practiced at it too and the equipment is very well maintained.

If I am being honest, everything about fueling scares me. Dump cans scare me the most though. They spill and everyone and they mom thinks they are qualified to use them. Dudes in shorts and flip flops included.

The only time I have ever seen a pressure pro system malfunction it was the red head and not the pressure pro actually. And it was not the red head seals. This happened to a TT team in Baja. I watched it happen from across the highway The red head just bound up and did not spring shut. The guy manning the dead man valve had already shut his valve off (fueling was done) so there was just whatever pressure was in the hose (and gravity I suppose also.) The stabber was super reactive. One slap of his hand on the redhead and it shut and the excitement was over.

The scary part was that it did spray a decent amount of fuel and it was atomized. But, I have seen a red head stick before on a gravity fuel tower and it was basically the same as what I saw the one with the pressure pro spray. It looked to be anyway.

I have grown to be more comfortable around fueling and pressure pros now a days. Dump cans, towers, and Pressure Pros are all dangerous i suppose. We do our best to be careful.
 

MTPyle

Well-Known Member
Thanks for the info Dan. I saw the video of the stuck red head on the mango truck.

I reached out to BITD and the Tech person is going to call me. I am pretty sure the people with PP do not have a discriminator valve. Just Ball check valves in all vents with vent line going above fill and below tank

It will be interesting to talk to the tech person. Not sure who Donald will have call me.

Mike
 

MTPyle

Well-Known Member
I talked to Darrell at BITD. I do need a discriminator valve. After the conversation it's clear that its only required so they can verify you have some safety without looking inside the cell. I guess lots of guys take out the check valve in the cells. It's too bad we need rules for the guys that cut corners. You would think all teams would want the fuel systems designed correctly for safety.

So I am going with a -10 check valve to a -10 Discriminator valve on the air vent then a small filter at the end.

I am thinking of putting clear wire reinforced tube on the vent to the Vent Red head so we can see the fuel before the fuel hits the read head. Why do people not do that? I have not seen it and usually there is a reason.

Its crazy how complex it is and how many different ways to do it. There should be a standard fuel cell design for all types of filling. But then what would I have done with my week? LOL

Mike
 

51rcr

Well-Known Member
Amazed nothing better has come about. All the fire and fuel safety comes down to crappy plastic hose that melts easy.
 

OFFRD-JNKIE

Well-Known Member
I would think the reason you do not see it is because with the pressure pro once full the fuel vents into the second hose attached to the fill hose which is also a red head. This hose is clear and easy to see, as soon as you see it hit that vent you know the tank full and back out. It's also easier for the fuel valve operator to see and know when to shut it down.
 

Fourstroker

Well-Known Member
Make sure to plan the time it will take to setup your grounding rod, prime fill hose, empty both hoses after fueling... and have the equipment to do it right. It's not a short amount of time to set one up right. Oh yeah make sure to lube your o-rings and check the redhead springs before each use. Good luck
 

MTPyle

Well-Known Member
New cell covers with new vents going in today.

We added a 4" tube around the input so it directs the fuel to the bottom of the cell first when filling. Need to bottom fill so fuel does not get over to the vent side.

And on the vent side we have 2.25" main vent with steel ball for roller over. A -10 ball valve for air vent that goes to a harmon Discriminator valve then to a K&N filter on the back. That line will go from -10 bulkhead up to above the Dual Red Head fill and vent then back down to the discriminator valve then to the back of the truck with the filter. So when we top off the fuel does not get to discriminator valve.

Also changed our fuel pick up box out for Holly Hyrdmat pickups. This creates more usable fuel in the cell and allows us to remove the Pre filters before the pumps. (our pumps are external)

We then added a return hose from the bukdkead to the bottom of the tank. Before it was just dropping the return at the top of the cell on the foam, So it would have to run down the foam to get to the pickup box. This will also give use more usable fuel.


Mike
IMG_0233.jpeg
 

joshmx88

Well-Known Member
I always smile a little when i see a fuel holding device with an electric impact tool on it!
Looks great other than that!
 

MTPyle

Well-Known Member
Josh,

LOL funny. Especially since we just made a rule that we will not use electric power tools when fueling the truck at the pits. Then we go and do this. jajaja.

Mike
 
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