6100 engine inspection and cheater motors

Should BITD increase tech inspection for 6100?

  • Yes, BITD needs to do a better job of enforcing spec engine rules

    Votes: 32 91.4%
  • No, racers are good at enforcing themselves and BITD does a fine job

    Votes: 3 8.6%

  • Total voters
    35

MTPyle

Well-Known Member
Figured I would start a new thread and a poll to get a sense of what people think.

In another thread we were talking about the possibility of "cheating" in 6100 with SCORE tagged engines or Modifications to the BITD tagged engines. (cheating is not limited to just SCORE guys)

As of Aug 11th SCORE tagged spec engines are no longer allowed in BITD. To be honest I think its possible some teams do not even know that.

SCORE allows TTspec engines to be rebuilt which allows for some power increases with decking and other mods. In fact you can take a brand new tagged engine, rebuild it and re tag as SCORE spec engine. Which I think many top SCORE teams do.

The other issue is BITD tagged engines being modified or tampered with. Lots of ways to make more power and not get caught so I assume that's happening. One example is Larger Throttle Body or porting the intake. It would not show up on the vacuum test and would take a visual inspection to catch. Nobody is checking that as far as I am concerned.

The Current Tech inspection for BITD is not great and will let a lot of mods get by. So maybe we need to strengthen the inspection?

Maybe we need to change the rules for challenging a racer that you think may have a cheater motor? I think there are more accurate ways to inspect a engine that take more time and maybe cost more to do? if so maybe the person that challenges pays the test fee and if the challenged racer is in fact cheating they pay the fee and get a big DQ.

Currently its my understanding that if you challenge another team in BITD that engine has to be torn down which makes it junk and not legal to race again. Which I think makes it to where people do not want to challenge. There is no way I would challenge someone if I knew it would cost them a new motor regardless of if they cheated or not. The penalty is just too large for challagening. I think we need a better way to test that does not tear the engine down. Or if Turnkey tears it down they can put it back and its still legal to race? Not sure what the solution is but the fact that we have had zero challenges and zero trucks getting caught cheating means I think we need some changes.

We all should want fair rules that are enforced. I know some of you old school guys will roll your eyes at this post. LOL On a personal level I am already fighting to keep up with the BITD 525hp engines on power. I know I cant hang with the SCORE modified engines. I don't think it's Ok to have a spec class that has different specs for certain teams.

Mike
 

jon coleman

Well-Known Member
in spec rX7 , for awhile Dave Turner ran the post race ' inspection' for cheaters, top three were looked at, Only Dave knew what he was gonna check, Not the competitors, sooo, if you were cheating , and top 3 , it was somthing to think about, & yes, he did catch a cheater....or 2( im guilty! i ran a 4:11 mazda gsl-se ls diff at orange show speedway, it didnt really help, but my stock one blew out previous race Cajon speedway, , there i confessed)
 

MTPyle

Well-Known Member
BTW

Our family got Covid so I have been in lock down for awhile. So that’s why I post so much lately. I have noting else to do. Haha.

i just noticed that I have created more threads and commented way more than usual. Hehe

we are all fine and it wasn’t worse than a common flu. It did almost nothing to me.

Mike
 

Viola1685

Well-Known Member
I don’t race 6100 but I do race class 10 also a spec engine class. Post tech should entail a lot more in depth then it does in my opinion as well. As it sits it’s far to easy for people to cheat. Only way to catch someone is to protest which cost money if your wrong. I don’t have the answer on what should be done but I agree more should be done to ensure the rules are being followed
 

43mod

Well-Known Member
Cost of engine divided by number of entrants. All pay their share. Winners engine is now purchased. Impound truck until engine can be removed. Exchange for new engine (w appropriate sealed internal mods already done ) at same time. Inspect engine. Probably best to have intake manifold /throttle body mods open and not have to bother inspecting them. Swapping engines sucks but winning should offset it. Refusal is 5 year ban
 

JDDurfey

Well-Known Member
Too bad Pistol Pete isn't here to join in this conversation. He was very vocal about this topic. He felt like the engine rules were being "bent" and "broken" and nothing was being done about it. He actually wanted stricter rules to put everyone on the same playing field.

With it being a "spec" class, it doesn't matter if following the rules only gave you 350 hp, if everyone is on the same playing field and the rules are enforced it makes for great racing.
 

MTPyle

Well-Known Member
Yacht man

so your vote is leave it alone as the racers and BITD are already doing enough.

I would assume BITD would say the same thing as what you are saying SCORE says but the issue is not one truck has been challenged and not one person has been found to have cheated in 6100. So I don’t know for sure but the odds are someone is cheating.

I agree we should not just sit around and bitch and complain. I think we need to make some changes.

the current challenge process is it cost $10k no matter if the person was cheating or not. Personally there is no way I would make that call. which I believe is why not one truck has been challenged.


so we have a spec class that is not being enforced or challenged. What are the chances not one team has cheated? Especially knowing the chances of them getting challenged are next to nothing?

Mike
 

MTPyle

Well-Known Member
Cost of engine divided by number of entrants. All pay their share. Winners engine is now purchased. Impound truck until engine can be removed. Exchange for new engine (w appropriate sealed internal mods already done ) at same time. Inspect engine. Probably best to have intake manifold /throttle body mods open and not have to bother inspecting them. Swapping engines sucks but winning should offset it. Refusal is 5 year ban
Thanks for the productive post. Some good ideas.

the throttle body and intake is interesting. I wonder if that would drive up the cost as everyone would have to buy a $3k intake and throttle body? And I think it’s pretty easy to inspect if someone took the time

Is there a way to tell if a engine has been modified without tearing it apart?

Seems like there would be some system you could hook up to spark plug hole and check air flow?

I will research that and see what I can find.

Mike
 

jon coleman

Well-Known Member
cc the intakes?, if they have been ported, more cc, i know spec roundy round has 'quick' post race impound eng. checks to find rule infractions, no 10k fee either, you win, you inspected, thats what needs to happen with 6100& bitd, bitd Must inspect top 3 period.oh, you cheeeters reading this?, you Suck!, especially if your not winning, the cheeeting is masking your poor class selection, need to drop down
 

43mod

Well-Known Member
mod stock parts ok,not aftermarket . grind away. When you lose a box stock go kart race because you ground too much on the carb and it brakes off you found the limit.
 

jon coleman

Well-Known Member
mod stock parts ok,not aftermarket . grind away. When you lose a box stock go kart race because you ground too much on the carb and it brakes off you found the limit.
or you " ported your jeep head, and ' found out thinnness limmit on exhaust ports, ( eng ran killer, first few test lapps.....
 

CaptinCrash

Well-Known Member
Something needs to be done and I dont mind pitching in if something doesn’t change it’s gonna be hard for me to stay honest I’ve spent weeks testing my suspension converters engine tunes gearing tires fuels to get a edge I would have saved money if I just bought a hot engine as a class I know that 90% of the guys feel the same way after speaking to them in private but don’t want to speak out but the post tech we have now is pretty lame I hope as a class we can be heard that we want a better inspection
 

MTPyle

Well-Known Member
Yeah I agree, stock parts can be modified but no aftermarket. Its hard to inspect the head side of the intake but the throttle body side is easy.

One other idea I just had was to hook up a stock ECU with HP Tune and you can see the grams of air its getting. If there was a cam change or head change that would also change. So that would be a easy race day test. I will ask Kolby if he can do it on a SCORE decked motor and a BITD motor and see if there is a large enough difference. That will also show us as few other things that could tell if we should look further into that engine.

Mike
 

jon coleman

Well-Known Member
your class has enough clout, 30 + entrants?, form your6100DA, &demand certain procedures,pre&post race inspections, and Institute the dreaded ' claimer rule', eng cost ÷ entrants count added to entry fee
 

MTPyle

Well-Known Member

ht racing

Well-Known Member
i do not think 10 motor hp will make any difference at all in offroad desert racing . tb mods are all peak hp and very little gain where you really need it. the guys up front are driving the wheels off those trucks as in class 10 and tt.
 

MTPyle

Well-Known Member
HT,

I totally agree. I am pretty sure if I had 50- or 200hp more I still would not beat Kyle Jergensen. LOL the top guys are just damn fast. But I think there does need to be a level playing field. 10hp isn't going to make a difference but we found that if you get 5 here, 8 there, etc. it starts to add up. My guess is 25-30hp can be noticed and will make a difference.

Our truck has maybe 30lbs more torque and you can see how we pull other trucks out of the corners. So it matters, especially in qualifying.

To say driver talent is all that matters and ignore the engine rules is not OK. How do we know some of the top guys are not just at the top because they have way more power?

Mike
 
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