6100 engine inspection and cheater motors

Should BITD increase tech inspection for 6100?

  • Yes, BITD needs to do a better job of enforcing spec engine rules

    Votes: 69 92.0%
  • No, racers are good at enforcing themselves and BITD does a fine job

    Votes: 6 8.0%

  • Total voters
    75
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BajaAddict

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Yes, I believe cheating happens in 6100. However, we do not cheat. We have been racing for many years; from short course, karts, asphalt circle track, dirt circle track, class 5 etc. One common thing for us is making it to winners circle and if you win enough times, you will be accused of cheating. If you know us, you know we work harder than most. We have never once been disqualified for cheating in any form of racing. My goal here is to open my truck up so all the people with ”facts” can satisfy themselves. I have four ideas and am open to the following: 1) After King Of Hammers my “cheater motor” is for sale for what I paid for it plus $1500 for labor/replacement. (I purchased this motor from Turn Key, and it will have less than 1000 miles on it). My spare motor with 1500 miles on it that we raced last year is for sale as well at cost. 2) I am willing to send my truck directly to Turn Key for a motor inspection. (Yes it still has the same motor from Parker with the same serial numbers.) 3) I am willing to meet you at my shop and discuss any of this in person and I would love to see all the people with the “facts” look at me and tell me they know something is illegal on my truck. A phone call is available for those who are too far away. My cell is (909) 225 - 2332. 4) I am open to any suggestions that could satisfy the people who spread inaccurate information about us.

- Neal Grabowski
No one will buy it... but brave man putting your cell on RDC 😂
 

BajaAddict

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I was told they had the top guys pull the stock ECM to see if the engine stopped at Parker BWDC. That’s not a great test as the piggyback can be set up to need the stock ECM to operate.
What’s the proper way to test for this then? Someone needs to tell BITD. At least they tried/are trying.
 

MTPyle

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What’s the proper way to test for this then? Someone needs to tell BITD. At least they tried/are trying.

I totally agree that’s it’s great they are trying. They are doing what they can which has not been the case in the past.

Again when I posted about the Parker Race Post tech I was asking what was up as there was clearly a lot of confusion.

there is no way to test for piggyback ECM. They should not have another aftermarket computer that is capable of running the engine in the truck. BITD should not allow all these Motecs and other brands that can be ECM to be installed in a spec truck, period. Or they open up the rules to allow aftermarket ECM. Again I don’t really care about the ECM it’s more of a way to tell who is willing to go beyond the rules as we all understand them.

I am going to leave this alone. Clearly I have done a poor job of explaining my position and why I care. It’s not worth the negative backlash I am getting or possibly my sponsors. I was just trying to get the conversation going and make sure nobody was getting away with anything. I really do mean well and have the best interest of the class in mind.

my truck just came off the dyno and she is running the best it’s been. We have worked hard to make a lot of baby steps to add up to something that matters, and we have.

off to the wrap shop then all the details and work it takes to get a traveling Carny to the lake bed.

I just hope we hurt some else feelings next week, besides our own. Haha

Mike
 

BajaAddict

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I totally agree that’s it’s great they are trying. They are doing what they can which has not been the case in the past.

Again when I posted about the Parker Race Post tech I was asking what was up as there was clearly a lot of confusion.

there is no way to test for piggyback ECM. They should not have another aftermarket computer that is capable of running the engine in the truck. BITD should not allow all these Motecs and other brands that can be ECM to be installed in a spec truck, period. Or they open up the rules to allow aftermarket ECM. Again I don’t really care about the ECM it’s more of a way to tell who is willing to go beyond the rules as we all understand them.

I am going to leave this alone. Clearly I have done a poor job of explaining my position and why I care. It’s not worth the negative backlash I am getting or possibly my sponsors. I was just trying to get the conversation going and make sure nobody was getting away with anything. I really do mean well and have the best interest of the class in mind.

my truck just came off the dyno and she is running the best it’s been. We have worked hard to make a lot of baby steps to add up to something that matters, and we have.

off to the wrap shop then all the details and work it takes to get a traveling Carny to the lake bed.

I just hope we hurt some else feelings next week, besides our own. Haha

Mike
I think you’ve made yourself clear now that you only meant to start the discussion and not target anyone directly. Keep the Spec class Spec is what it’s about.

Now... I’m curious what test BITD tried to do at the Parker BWDC race? Unplug the Motec and see if the truck runs? There is no way to test for a piggyback ECM at all? Honestly don’t know much about the computer side of things, but there has to be a tuner or wiring guy that could show up to a race and test for this, no?
 

TJERGENSEN

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So like I said earlier we never get to touch out motors before they go to turnkey. That being said what happens if the motor doesn't pass these so called tests. Does a guy with a brand new motor have a chance of being called a cheater just because everything is fresh. Isn't this why we are all having them tagged. What is wrong with the the tagging.
 

Slippery P

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Yes they added the new LT1 last year to BITD, Score, and Snore. But the catch is it’s 460hp version not the 535hp version of the LT1. Fact is we have done a lot to ours and finally have it about the same HP as the LS3. Granted we have slightly more TQ. It’s been a long year and a ton of baby steps to get there. And we have to run E85 to match the LS3 in n race gas. So we lose range.

to my knowledge we are the only team with the LT1. The rest of the fleet is much smarter. LOL

I won’t get into the benifits of aftermarket ECM for throttle. Haha.

Mike
You need a better tuner...
 

hnunez

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To the person that pasted Couple post back. I typically don’t post on here but couldn’t resist the urge. So I have a stock motor in my truck (diesel).I tuned it with an aftermarket tuner into the stock OBD 2 port and it makes a lot more power with stock motor. This is contradictory to what you said that it takes engine work to make more power. I think?
 

bajaboy7

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SGP1: The director, or operations manager, with or without protest, has the right to penalize, fine, disqualify, and/or suspend any vehicle or entrant for violation of any Best In The Desert Racing Association/The American Off-Road Racing Series rules. Another entrant within the same class may make technical protests as the entrant being protested. A five hundred dollar ($500) cash fee must accompany protests for each item protested. Engine Protests are a fifteen hundred dollar ($1500) fee. The protest must be in writing along with the fee and be delivered to the Operations Manager or Director no later than 30 minutes after the official end of time limit. If the protest is proved valid the $500 fee will be returned to the protestor. If the protest is proved invalid the fee goes to the person who was protested. Protests considered by the Operations Manager that shows a lack of sportsmanship may not be accepted. The Operations Manager will direct the technical director to check the protested items. The decision of the Operations Manager and director will be final. Interpretation of all rules along with violations and penalties thereof are at the discretion of Best In The Desert Racing Association. Penalties levied at the discretion of Best In The Desert Racing Association are final.

SGP2: Any entrant who has an official protest lodged against his/her race vehicle must submit to an inspection of the protested items. Failure to submit to inspection will result in automatic disqualification and/or suspension.
Those attending the inspection(s) will be as follows:
A. The protester or their designated representative.
B. The protested competitor or their designated representative.
C. The protested competitor’s mechanic.
D. Best In The Desert Racing Association officials.
E. Best In The Desert Racing Association Chief Technical Inspector who shall supervise the required inspection of the protested items(s).
F. At the discretion of Best In The Desert Racing Association, with the approval of the protested competitor, members of the press will be permitted to observe for reporting purposes only.
G. No other persons shall be present nor witness the proceedings until the inspection has been completed.

Put you money where your mouth is! Last I remember, it is up to class competitors to police themselves for technical rules. See above.
 

Slippery P

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like always there are a lot of accusations being thrown around based on misinformation or hearsay. As well there are quite a few individuals who clearly don’t fully understand the inner workings of an engine or an ECU for that matter making statements pertaining to testing methods, and engines being able to make more power than they are mechanically capable of.

I don’t know if people are cheating or not, here is what I do know, the last big cheater gate that happened was with Brock Hegar and his engine was tore down and found to be completely stock with no modifications. It was then given back to him in a box with no compensation.

He can flat out drive! The kid carries speed through sections of race course that would make you go WOW. Unfortunately in this sport a lot of people focus on top speed far too much, news flash you are not getting beat because a guy goes 5-10mph faster than you in a straight line. The majority of you are getting beat in the corners. If there are 200 corners on the race course and someone is making up 1 second on you in every corner, well do the math.

Kyle Jergensen just drove from the back of the pack in TT at Parker in a 6100 truck to finish 3rd, the same truck that won the 6100 championship. Was the only reason he was able to do that because he has a Cheater engine and a mysterious “piggy back ECU” giving him an extra 100hp? NO!!! In fact the engine in that truck is purchased direct from Turnkey, Its because the dude is an animal and like Brock he carries speed through sections of race course where other people cannot.

I would suggest some of you take a race off and go spectate, see where you are getting beat on the race course and improve on your program and driving abilities.
 

MTPyle

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Slippery

when you say “some of you” who are you talking about? Don’t be vague like me saying a Herbst truck. Go ahead and call the person out. Bring it.

I don’t know you but you sure seem defensive about all this cheating talk. Do you work for a engine builder? What is your name and who do you work for? You know mine.

You sure seem to have a lot of answers and know everything.

Mike
 

51rcr

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its ok to question it and keep people from doing something. Its one of what only 3 rules for the class to be spec. a TH400, under 40 tires and the engine. If anything it should have a minimum weight added to keep HP to weight ratio even.
 

Slippery P

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Slippery

when you say “some of you” who are you talking about? Don’t be vague like me saying a Herbst truck. Go ahead and call the person out. Bring it.

I don’t know you but you sure seem defensive about all this cheating talk. Do you work for a engine builder? What is your name and who do you work for? You know mine.

You sure seem to have a lot of answers and know everything.

Mike
I’m not being vague Mike, “some of you” is referring to anybody who wants to cry cheater because they are getting beat rather than looking internally at their program and driving abilities.

Maybe people are cheating, maybe they are not, but I would suggest anyone who wants to call someone out for it have all their ducks in a row before coming on a public forum and doing so with hearsay information. I do feel you have good intentions With your questions Mike, that being said I had to explain in detail to you in the engine forum how an LS3 water pump works, that doesn’t give me much confidence in you making statements about the inner workings of an engine or ECU, and how people are cheating.
 

MTPyle

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Slippery

I never said I knew everything. In fact I think I have said a million different ways that we are learning everyday. I have never said we are getting beat because of cheaters. In fact I have said 100's of times we beat ourselves. I have also said the Driver is the biggest factor, not the truck. I know for a fact that we could put Kyle J into our truck and he will win. We can not get it into the top 10.

I do however know a fair amount about engines ECM and testing. I went deep dive into it when I started this thread, I learned a lot.

The thing that got me back into this was people saying the reason the Whistler was measuring high was temp and starter. Which is not true. Yes the test can be effected but temp but not as much as the numbers that were being seen on the device.


But I dont see anyone else asking these questions on here that also races. So I assume you are trying to attack me and act like I am complaining because I think we are getting beat by cheaters. Why is it such a difficult concept to understand I care about the class and the cheaters regardless of how it effects our outcome. THIS THREAD IS NOT ABOUT OUR RACING PROGRAM. At least I have a race program.

And why are you not sharing your name and who you work for? Thats interesting.

Mike
 

swiftracing5

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Screenshot (30).png
 

MTPyle

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I'm pretty sure everyone Mike has called out about not saying their name has it clearly shown on their RDC profile page lol

oh does it say where he works on his profile? Just interesting that the guy that works for one of the top engine builders in the sport is the one getting defensive and giving me crap.

And why won’t he say who he works for on this thread?

Edit- I know Slippery knows his stuff. Not trying to say he does not. just pointing out the irony.

Man I hate this place sometimes. LOL 😂

Mike
 
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