6100 engine inspection and cheater motors

Should BITD increase tech inspection for 6100?

  • Yes, BITD needs to do a better job of enforcing spec engine rules

    Votes: 69 92.0%
  • No, racers are good at enforcing themselves and BITD does a fine job

    Votes: 6 8.0%

  • Total voters
    75
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J Prich

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Tough sell here...to pretend to not know where he worked to try to make a vague implication that his POVs he shared here are somehow dishonest is a line that doesn't need to be crossed in my opinion. Fair enough if you disagree with the guy and fair enough if you don't like him counter questioning what you've questioned here...but passive aggressively challenging his (and by default the company he works for) integrity and credibility is a bridge too far in my book.
 

MTPyle

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Fair enough. I am for sure getting irritated. The fact that guys keep saying I need to worry more about my program and not the rules is getting old. They are making personal attacks and being passive aggressive.

I knew who he was but did not want to say it. So I gave him a chance to.

just fighting fire with fire.

I see why no racers says anything on here. I am a slow learner but I am getting there.

Mike
 

J Prich

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Just sharing my POV as an unaffected third party. As a person who has been guilty of getting sucked in to and furthering pointless arguments, I feel like the value of these kinds of conversations have a shelf life. It can only go long before it devolves in to what it has here and no longer becomes about the root issue.

I personally think the issues you raised have merit to at least explore, whether they are all factually correct or not. And from the outside looking in it seems that at least some others agree with you, even if some don't see it your way. The bottom line is at a certain point the convo is more about fighting back and arguing than it is about fixing the problem.

Get the group of like minded 6100 guys together, consolidate your concerns, and present them to the only group that can actually make a different here...BITD. The rest of what transpires here is just noise.
 

MTPyle

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Your are absolutely right

I thought I did that and conceded. But Slippery wanted another piece of me on the way out.

Everything he says on here should not be directly related to his employer. Just like everything I say on here is not directly about my racing program. We can have discussions and opinions outside of our daily focus. I can call out things that have nothing to do with our racing. But somehow because I race that is used against me.

The fact that anyone thinks I bring up the cheating and the rules because of my own racing program is silly. Making jabs or attacks on our program is not productive and off topic. We know we are not fast. Duh.

Mike
 

J Prich

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Mike,
Here's where I'm coming from. You elevated that status and visibility of your race program by the things you posted here on RDC. Without winning a single race, people came to know you and your program based on your in-depth, candid, and entertaining post race reports. There are people who know little to nothing about 6100 but know YOU because of that. Don't let this kind of stuff drag you down in to the mud and tarnish that. You ARE right to bring up valid concerns and questions, and seek validation. And you are absolutely right that some people will unfairly take personal shots at you because of it. You have to know going in that when you raise those kinds of issues, others may react negatively, emotionally, and personally. The more you drag in to the tit for tat pettiness, the less credibility it gives to the original point you were making.

It's easier said then done and I know from experience how hard it is to refrain from responding in kind when someone takes a shot at you on here, but the bottom line is all that really matters is trying to solve or at least improve the problem you identified. All the rest is just wasted energy. Sometimes less is more and getting dragged in to the personal side of things does more harm then good. Stick to your guns and advocate for what you believe, but don't overdo it and let the value of the conversation get lost in the nonsense.
 

MTPyle

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Thanks JPrich good stuff.

I will admit I get a little too passionate about things. It’s hard to keep a level head.

Good news is this is giving us more fuel to want to beat everyone. Not sure you saw the Michael Jordan Documentary? He needed to hate someone to really beat them. Maybe I just needed a little of that motivation. Not saying I hate anyone but for sure the negativity is giving me some good energy.

Thanks again!
 

Bro_Gill

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It's kind of funny. Back when Class 9 (Challenger) started, it was touted as one of the lowest cost, classes around. 'Junk' parts that no VW racers wanted or needed to use to race the other classes were designated as the parts you had to use in the class. The first few years, there were so many DQs on minor technical issues, like Compression being 0.1 over the allowed compression ratio, engine tin trimmed to allow the valve cover breather lines not to chafe, etc... But the rules were the rules and the tech guy handled them like they were- In black and white, no gray. And people got pissed, and sometimes, altercations happened, an engine or 2 were claimed, but eventually everyone figured out that they must meet the rules as written. And the class thrived. The lowest cost budget class. Why do some of the big dollar folks think they don't need to follow written rules?
 

pdailey

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Anticipation Popcorn GIF
 

MTPyle

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Talked to Darrell of BITD for awhile. He and BITD were not impressed with this thread. Haha. Anyway it was a good conversation.

I believe the real issue is communication. Darrell really only has the top 5 guys or maybe 10 that he can communicate with after a race. So he feels like he tells everyone all they need to know. But the majority of teams never hear these details. It’s not a official communication.

I think he is doing a lot we do not know. How would we?

There have been things come up but he is giving the racers the benefit of a second chance to not do it again. Problem is we never hear about it. So if someone is told you can not have a 2 speed underdrive in post tech how are the other 30 teams to know? I never heard about the 2 speed under-drive until recently.

The original point of this thread was is BITD doing enough? The reality is they may be but it’s not communicated to the group.

In fact the only official 6100 communication I have seen is when Donald asked about 40” tires and Underdrives over a year ago. I have not seen any information since then and apparently there has been a lot of info shared to certain teams in post tech.

He mentioned like 6 things he has told the 6100 group and I had not heard any of them. Only the top 5-10 guys in post tech do. We have only been in post tech 3 times and each time it’s simple and short with no additional information.

So really this may not be a Darrel issue or even a tech process issue. It seems it’s a communication issue from BITD. They can hate me for bringing this up but it’s clearly a problem.

this is all being made worse by no open forum drivers meetings or group meetings of any sort. There is no mechanism for BITD to communicate to the 6100 group. They sure are not on here sharing info. Haha.

Mike
 

Slippery P

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Darrel is trying, I had a conversation with him a couple weeks ago about some CL10 stuff. You have to remember Darrel has a full time day job that has nothing to do with BITD and his phone is ringing off the hook. Seems to me the 6100 class should come together and appoint a rules regulating board within the class. Find some qualified people to perform the post tech you want done properly. Not trying to throw Turn Key under the bus or any thing but if they cannot be relied on to perform post tech and it’s being put on the shoulders of BITD officials who aren’t savvy with the equipment, or knowledgeable about engines, or don’t have the time. Maybe the 6100 group should get together come up with some skilled people to handle the post tech and have a meeting about it with BITD.
 

MTPyle

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Yeah while I was listening to Darrell talk I was thinking he is a better man than I. I can’t even take a little bashing on the forum. I can’t imagine all the crap he takes. LOL Actually made me feel bad for causing more drama for him. I didn’t know he was a part time guy with BITD.

He is a good guy that needs help. The 6100 class is big and needs attention.

Mike
 

Slippery P

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Yeah while I was listening to Darrell talk I was thinking he is a better man than I. I can’t even take a little bashing on the forum. I can’t imagine all the crap he takes. LOL Actually made me feel bad for causing more drama for him. I didn’t know he was a part time guy with BITD.

He is a good guy that needs help. The 6100 class is big and needs attention.

Mike
Exactly, you Mike and others who feel the same way as you need to take the initiative to help them out. That’s the only way things will change. Example, we as engine builders years ago tried to get them to allow an ATI Damper on the CL10 engines. Casey wasn’t having it, there is literally no performance advantage. The factory damper can come apart as the belt shell is held onto the hub with the rubber damper material (press fit) not common but with load from the power steering pump running high in the RPM range for long periods of time it can come apart. At this years Baja 1000 this cost chase warren the race with a massive lead, and the shell cut through the timing cover like a chain saw. It took them contacting BITD and explaining the situation for things to change.
 
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Slippery P

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Old Slip had the same conversations with Pete. He seems to take cheating accusations personal. Only Slip and a few of his close associates really know why 🤷‍♂️.
Yeah I’m sorry I take extreme pride in the hours and effort myself and our team put into our product and support we offer to make sure our customers big and small have the best opportunity to win races with the products we provide for them. I’m sorry that Pete (R.I.P) made things personal by making accusations about (my close associates) and his friends business based on things he thought he knew. I’m sorry that my love for this sport and the ability to see all the hard work and hours our team puts in come to fruition when we have multiple teams win in multiple classes caused me to not sit here and take Pete’s crap like most others on this forum did. Pete was a great dude, would literally give the shirt off his back to anyone, Pete was a great driver, dude could drive the wheels off of anything, Pete was also his own worst enemy when it came to finishing races. I had and still have a lot of respect for Pete as a person and race car driver.
 

Robin Hood

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Yeah I’m sorry I take extreme pride in the hours and effort myself and our team put into our product and support we offer to make sure our customers big and small have the best opportunity to win races with the products we provide for them. I’m sorry that Pete (R.I.P) made things personal by making accusations about (my close associates) and his friends business based on things he thought he knew. I’m sorry that my love for this sport and the ability to see all the hard work and hours our team puts in come to fruition when we have multiple teams win in multiple classes caused me to not sit here and take Pete’s crap like most others on this forum did. Pete was a great dude, would literally give the shirt off his back to anyone, Pete was a great driver, dude could drive the wheels off of anything, Pete was also his own worst enemy when it came to finishing races. I had and still have a lot of respect for Pete as a person and race car driver.
I respect the reply, but not sure I really know the real reason behind your passion. Actions, speak way louder than words in my book and I just hope you are true to your words you speak.
 

SMS81

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Mtpyle, you are correct, there is cheating/bending the rules in desert racing. I know with 100% certainty that not all engine suppliers/taggers are created equal. How can you police it, you can’t, and that sucks, especially in a hobby sport. Even if all motors are identical, someone will figure out an accessory system with 25% less drag, a converter system with just the right internals to lay down more power, a rear end that creates its own centripetal force adding power without energy, a hub set up that will spin freely with half the effort, Lastly, someone will develop driving skills that will make all of the other advantages not matter. Once again, it sucks, but that is life in limited class racing and always will be.

The hypocrisy of these 15 pages of class 6100 talk is that you are up in arms with the fairness of racing other equal trucks when currently you are producing a modern day, updated class 6000 truck to race directly against the 38 older trucks, AND YOU THINK THAT IS OK!. That is cheating or do rules only apply when you are on the short end of the stick?

Enjoy desert racing, race in Mexico, appreciate the adventure, work on your corner entry and exit speed, the 6000 will help with that, if all else fails, buy an unlimited car and then you will realize it wasn’t the truck! Sometimes people don’t always get a trophy. Try and remember it’s a hobby. Good luck!
 
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MTPyle

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Mtpyle, you are correct, there is cheating/bending the rules in desert racing. I know with 100% certainty that not all engine suppliers/taggers are created equal. How can you police it, you can’t, and that sucks, especially in a hobby sport. Even if all motors are identical, someone will figure out an accessory system with 25% less drag, a converter system with just the right internals to lay down more power, a rear end that creates its own centripetal force adding power without energy, a hub set up that will spin freely with half the effort, Lastly, someone will develop driving skills that will make all of the other advantages not matter. Once again, it sucks, but that is life in limited class racing and always will be.

The hypocrisy of these 15 pages of class 6100 talk is that you are up in arms with the fairness of racing other equal trucks when currently you are producing a modern day, updated class 6000 truck to race directly against the 38 older trucks, AND YOU THINK THAT IS OK!. That is cheating or do rules only apply when you are on the short end of the stick?

Enjoy desert racing, race in Mexico, appreciate the adventure, work on your corner entry and exit speed, the 6000 will help with that, if all else fails, buy an unlimited car and then you will realize it wasn’t the truck! Sometimes people don’t always get a trophy. Try and remember it’s a hobby. Good luck!


SMS81,

LOL I don’t know if you are joking or just that confused. Haha

We are building a 6000 to TL R4 specs and rules. The only changes we are making are modern dash, new body, and some cosmetic stuff. All performance aspects are 100% the same as all other R4. All R4’s will be able to make the updates as they can now. We are not making any performance improvements as it’s a spec class.

We are also working with TL to lighten up on some of the rules to have less of this type of drama. We would like to see the ECU open. But that’s TL’s call.

or maybe you are being sarcastic and just showing how things can be twisted on the internet? Haha of so well played.

Mike
 

SMS81

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D95064D1-4ABE-4D21-987B-D2509FAF3466.png

I must be confused. Last time I looked, correcting bumpsteer, reliability, wiring and comfort are all advantages the previous 38 will not have. Your words, not mine. I smell a career in politics in your future.

In the words of the wise Kourtney Kardashian “There are people that are dying”
 
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