6100 engine inspection and cheater motors

Should BITD increase tech inspection for 6100?

  • Yes, BITD needs to do a better job of enforcing spec engine rules

    Votes: 69 92.0%
  • No, racers are good at enforcing themselves and BITD does a fine job

    Votes: 6 8.0%

  • Total voters
    75
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J Prich

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So why are you afraid to say who you are? What team are you with?

Really amazing that people confuse the topic of cheating with my team. It sends me thru the roof. I am so tired of this stupidity. I guess I didn't realize there were this many people in off-road that have comprehension problems.

The fact that some people are judging me in a negative way for having this discussion just shows how shallow people can be. Really sad.

To be honest this entire topic and the way its been received has really made me think twice about continuing to race. To think someone thinks less of me and my team because I want the rules enforced is so wrong. I guess I had higher expectations for this group as a whole. The worst part is it got me so pissed I went to the lowest level and started calling names. What a mess.

I actually walked around KOH and was embarrassed knowing there were guys that looked down on me and my team after this topic. Just cant win these days unless you do nothing and just sit back and judge the people that are doing things.

Mike
To put it another way...

Quotation-Winston-Churchill-You-will-never-reach-your-destination-if-you-stop-and-44-90-83.jpg
 

MTPyle

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I have no skin in the game but I think this is a conversation best had at the next race or with race officials on the phone. The anonymity and the false sense of security a keyboard creates doesn’t help much when it’s an open board. Call people who can make a change, this thread has gone south.

I did that and actually had a really good plan to make a difference and had the support of BITD. But this may not be a good place for me to put my energy. Clearly there are some people that think its fine how it is and I will only make more enemies.

There really is nothing in it for me but frustration and cheap shots from people that have nothing better to do than give people crap.

I had planned to start a Spec truck group that helps with all orgs and creates a even playing field. I would put in the research and create value for the racers and the orgs all for non profit. I had great ideas and even went as far as creating a brand and getting the URL, IG, and FB set up. But really not sure its worth it for me anymore. The fact that myself and my team get personally attacked just shows how messed up the world is. I do this for fun with my family. I don't need anymore negativity my way for just trying to help the class.

I am going to focus on my program like so many keep telling me I should do. They win.

Mike
 

Rcamp99

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This thread sure did take a turn for the worse.... This is just a hobby and we should all try and play nice. That’s what it’s all about ladies and gents. No reason to hate each other.
I understand why none of the top drivers really post here much any more. 6-7 years ago it was ripe with top names all talking. The negativity has ran them all off.
 

MTPyle

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I have asked Admin to delete this thread. My boys do not need or deserve to be treated unfairly on the race track because I started a mess on here.

Maybe there was a good productive way to have this discussion on here but I am not the guy to solve that puzzle. I clearly failed and made a mess. I apologize to anyone I offended and made feel attacked. I know I would be pissed if someone was calling me a cheater so I get why some are not happy. I crossed the line when trying to fight the good fight.

Hopefully admin will help me clean it up.

Mike
 
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10 shot

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calstyl2
"At this point, I just want you proved wrong, So we can call you out on it.
Enforce the rules, dont be a cry baby when you find out that you were wrong and you're just slow.
You seriously are one thick headed person, cant wait for the end show.
Never once have I said no, dont enforce the rules, never once have I called out anyone, Ive been doing this long enough to know some people have talent and some dont.
Since you have made it personal, it will be now.

And please lord, let you get a fluke pole start in the next few races, the go pro video will be epic when the "cheaters" catch you."


You are an idiot. I have never said I am getting beat by cheaters. This is not about our team and I will say again that we are beating ourselves. What is wrong with you that you cant understand that?

You want me to get beat because I am the one that will say what everyone else does not say in public?

And how would someone beating me prove me wrong? We got beat by 10 teams at KOH, does that mean none of them are cheaters? Do you have a learning disability or special needs? I dont want to argue with a retard and not know it.

Mike
If it's not just about your 6100 class and your race program and just the rules then why are you not concerned about any other spec class other than 6100??
 

BajaAddict

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Not sure why this thread became about how fast certain drivers drive. Thats not the point. The point of the thread is the rules should be enforced and based on the poll the vast majority agrees BITD and other orgs need to do a better job of enforcing the Spec truck engine rules.

Unless what you guys are saying is since there are fast drivers in the class than the rules don't matter?

To be honest when guys start defending how fast they are and being defensive about cheating it makes me think they are cheating. The ones that attack me and my program clearly are defensive and trying to take focus off of the subject of cheating.

as it relates to the "Herbst" (not saying Herbst the company but the trucks built by Herbst) trucks I think they have either found some legal and legit power speed trick or they are cheating. They clearly have a truck advantage. Its possible that they just have the faster trucks coupled with fast drivers but its also possible they are ignoring the rules because they know they wont be enforced. Who would blame them? Isn't racing all about pushing the rules?

I had 5 racers come up to me at KOH and said they feel 100% confident certain trucks had more power. These were not slow guys saying this. These were fast experienced racers that understand the difference between momentum and pure power.

Just because someone is not afraid to get inspected does not mean they are not cheating. There are a many ways to cheat with a LS3 and not get caught with the current test methods. If you have a way to re tag then you can have ported and polished heads and no way for that to show up in the post race tech. Thats at least 50hp, I am sure there are 20 other ways to get around the inspection and make more power than the rest of the engines.

Fact is the rules need to be enforced and everyone agrees. Well everyone except the ones that get defensive and say how fast they are. Haha

Mike
@MTPyle
This thread lost it's initial focus when you started to point blame towards a specific truck manufacturer / teams. Which you continue to bring up saying Herbst. (Before you freak out... please continue to read.)

I have asked Admin to delete this thread. My boys do not need or deserve to be treated unfairly on the race track because I started a mess on here.

Maybe there was a good productive way to have this discussion on here but I am not the guy to solve that puzzle. I clearly failed and made a mess. I apologize to anyone I offended and made feel attacked. I know I would be pissed if someone was calling me a cheater so I get why some are not happy. I crossed the line when trying to fight the good fight.

Hopefully admin will help me clean it up.

Mike
There is a better way...
The consensus of the poll is that their needs to be better rule enforcement for 6100 (or Spec Classes in general). You won't get anywhere calling teams/manufacturers out on RaceDezert. (I understand you didn't mean to do this by any means, but that's just the way it went.) The proper way would be to create a new thread to discuss how to properly enforce the rules. What tests need to be done? How often? Who needs to be involved? How you get the organization to get on board? Etc.. At no point should team names or manufacturer names be mentions... Just my 2 cents.
If it's not just about your 6100 class and your race program and just the rules then why are you not concerned about any other spec class other than 6100??

I'm sure Mike would want an even playing field for all Spec classes. This 6100 thread just blew up.
 

10 shot

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Just a thought.... first find one guy with a cheater motor and then it may be possible there are more than one. So far not one person not one team not one motor has been found. All this talk of cheater motors and it's like a ghost not one motor has been found. Fact is the fast guys do not need to have more power they are just faster drivers! If one guy is just hands down waxing everyone every race then have him torn down pay the money and do it. Crying about it on here only gets ppl pissed off your right about that part.
 

JasonHutter

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Mike,

My question about pitting was to figure out why we were 18 minutes back to the leader. I can add up at least 10 minutes we were at a dead stop during this race while I’m assuming the 2 that beat us were having a clean day. The other time we left on the table was thinking we should run this race like a Baja race and lay up a little at the beginning to have a truck to go racing with at the end! That all being said we don’t think we were too far off the pace. Brad has definitely put some effort with tuning and such to be sure we can run the winning pace. We haven’t been on top of the podium yet. But, we feel our time is coming! As for the reason for your thread. We agree, as per our conversation at KOH. There is certainly room for improvement on enforcement of the rules! I don’t know how to get there. But, thank you for asking the tough questions and hopefully you get some answers soon! Again, I’m Brad’s co dog but have been racing for years in 7s and now 7 open (till they changed the rules a week or two ago making our truck illegal in 7200!) Anyway, what you are experiencing is nothing new! In 7s we were told we needed to enforce the rules between us! As we found in 7s. Because there were rules and it wasn’t an open class. Rules were being broken. But, if you asked any of the racers. They would tell you with a straight face their truck was completely legit! The best thing I think I’ve heard in this thread is to get the engine company selling all the engines involved. Let them know if they are not at the races making sure their engines aren’t being modified. BITD and others will use an engine company that will! Just my 2cents... Carry on.

Jason
 

elsancho

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Mike,

My question about pitting was to figure out why we were 18 minutes back to the leader. I can add up at least 10 minutes we were at a dead stop during this race while I’m assuming the 2 that beat us were having a clean day. The other time we left on the table was thinking we should run this race like a Baja race and lay up a little at the beginning to have a truck to go racing with at the end! That all being said we don’t think we were too far off the pace. Brad has definitely put some effort with tuning and such to be sure we can run the winning pace. We haven’t been on top of the podium yet. But, we feel our time is coming! As for the reason for your thread. We agree, as per our conversation at KOH. There is certainly room for improvement on enforcement of the rules! I don’t know how to get there. But, thank you for asking the tough questions and hopefully you get some answers soon! Again, I’m Brad’s co dog but have been racing for years in 7s and now 7 open (till they changed the rules a week or two ago making our truck illegal in 7200!) Anyway, what you are experiencing is nothing new! In 7s we were told we needed to enforce the rules between us! As we found in 7s. Because there were rules and it wasn’t an open class. Rules were being broken. But, if you asked any of the racers. They would tell you with a straight face their truck was completely legit! The best thing I think I’ve heard in this thread is to get the engine company selling all the engines involved. Let them know if they are not at the races making sure their engines aren’t being modified. BITD and others will use an engine company that will! Just my 2cents... Carry on.

Jason
Both trucks had full pit stops (changed rear tires and topped off with full) at remote pit on the outward bound of lap 2 and then both trucks received 5 second splashes on lap 3 at remote
 

JasonHutter

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Makes sense, we had 2 full fuel stops. Did not do rear tires anywhere. Had to pull the hood because a hood pin broke and it was lifting up in front of Brad. We had one flat we had to change on course and we don’t have the jacks built into the truck. The nerf from Grabowski knocked the right rear off the truck so one of our fuel stops was long when they tried to re rack a tire (it broke part of the truck off that holds the tire.) We stopped again to have another spare racked after our flat. Then, like I said. We didn’t push on the first lap and if you watch Grabowski’s video they were on a mission from the start and it paid off for them. Knowing they took the chance through the tight notch we thought their chance of making a clean run pushing like they were was slim. We thought wrong! All that said. Spec racing should be just that! One spec and drivers who can pull off what they did will win! But, checking to be sure everyone is on the same playing field is reasonable.
 
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MTPyle

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Not sure how else to say it. I was not crying about cheaters because I was getting beat.

the fact that people keep saying that is pretty silly. Now Herbst (the actual Troy Herbst) is saying that on IG and calling me a cry baby. Haha so much for taking the high road. I guess I am not the only one calling names. Haha

This big Macho crap is so childish. Don’t like people talking about rules and enforcement don’t race spec classes. Really blown away it came to this.

Mike
 
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BajaAddict

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Not sure how else to say it. I was not crying about cheaters because I was getting beat.

the fact that people keep saying that is pretty silly. Now Herbst (the actual Troy Herbst) is saying that on IG and calling me a cry baby. Haha so much for taking the high road. I guess I am not the only one calling names. Haha

This big Macho crap is so childish. Don’t like people talking about rules and enforcement don’t race spec classes. Really blown away it came to this.

Mike
@MTPyle

Again.. Not sure how else to say it. Do yourself a favor and start a new thread as this one will continue to snowball.

Everyone will continue to dwell on the fact that you called someone out with no "proof" unless you change it. For better or worse... just move on and focus on how to properly regulate it if that's what you are truly concerned with.
 

MTPyle

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I am over it.

but it seems Troy Herbst is taking responsibility for all Herbst trucks being 100% legal. even though I was told in this thread that Herbst does not prep all of the Herbst trucks. Interesting

fact is anytime rules and cheating is brought up the top guys will feel attacked. It’s not the first time this has happened. Just about every fast guy in our sport has been accused of cheating. Some take it better than others.

I would have thought it would be part of the job of being on the top of a spec class.

I will not start another thread and will not risk my boys being nerfed or crashed because I thought it was a good idea to have a thread about enforcing 6100 rules.

not sure how it got about my truck? Like I think my 2012 cheap truck is as good as a new Herbst truck? I must be getting beat because they are cheating. LOL

This all went sideways when there was a mess at post tech at Parker. One engine got sent to Turnkey for evaluation. We have yet to hear the results. For me that shows BITD is doing what they can. I will leave it alone and hope this thread gets deleted.

Mike
 
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E motorsports

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Just a thought.... first find one guy with a cheater motor and then it may be possible there are more than one. So far not one person not one team not one motor has been found. All this talk of cheater motors and it's like a ghost not one motor has been found. Fact is the fast guys do not need to have more power they are just faster drivers! If one guy is just hands down waxing everyone every race then have him torn down pay the money and do it. Crying about it on here only gets ppl pissed off your right about that part.
I think the reason that "not one cheater motor has been found" is..........
nobody is looking for it!!!
that's the point of this thread
 

Robin Hood

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I think the reason that "not one cheater motor has been found" is..........
nobody is looking for it!!!
that's the point of this thread
No one is really looking for cheater motors. It's all smoke and mirrors. Always has been, always will be. Even in tech you can find a large portion of the vehicals that are not compliant in plain site, especially in the smaller orgs. The rules are not enforced consistently and across the board.

Can anyone tell me why the amber light rule hasn't been enforced. Start watching videos, all sorts of cars running up front with no amber, no tail lights and sometimes no brake lights. You're wrong if you think no one is cheating. If you follow the rule-book, teams have been cheating for years, they just don't see it that way.
 

Bro_Gill

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t
Makes sense, we had 2 full fuel stops. Did not do rear tires anywhere. Had to pull the hood because a hood pin broke and it was lifting up in front of Brad. We had one flat we had to change on course and we don’t have the jacks built into the truck. The nerf from Grabowski knocked the right rear off the truck so one of our fuel stops was long when they tried to re rack a tire (it broke part of the truck off that holds the tire.) We stopped again to have another spare racked after our flat. Then, like I said. We didn’t push on the first lap and if you watch Grabowski’s video they were on a mission from the start and it paid off for them. Knowing they took the chance through the tight notch we thought their chance of making a clean run pushing like they were was slim. We thought wrong! All that said. Spec racing should be just that! One spec and drivers who can pull off what they did will win! But, checking to be sure everyone is on the same playing field is reasonable.
Was that your truck that had the fueling issue? I suspected it was from damage from a nerf from the actions of the pit guy up in the spare area.
 

tapeworm

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I think the organizations just putting the race on have too much on their plate these days with paperwork and permits and rules to have sufficient time to enforce the post tech of race vehicles. I think it’s time for classes to start their own non-profit groups as a regulatory authority with memberships that decide rules and post tech procedures and just have the organizations facilitate the class organizations in rule enforcement.

I haven’t seen this kind of response to class rules enforcement since a 9 car motor was claimed after a race.
 
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