6100 engine inspection and cheater motors

Should BITD increase tech inspection for 6100?

  • Yes, BITD needs to do a better job of enforcing spec engine rules

    Votes: 32 91.4%
  • No, racers are good at enforcing themselves and BITD does a fine job

    Votes: 3 8.6%

  • Total voters
    35

SMS81

Well-Known Member
It sucks, but even in a hobby sport people will cheat. Money will always find secret horse power. But even those with more motor still need a great amount of talent to beat the desert. There are some unusually fast cars in some limited classes.....engine tag ha! Pistol knew, so do others, remember we are all hobbyists/consumers paying businesses to race, if you do not like how an organization is run, take your business elsewhere. Good luck in the witch hunt, they are pretty sneaky!
 

MCM MOTORSPORTS

Well-Known Member
something else to consider - electronics. Allow 3 " brands " of ECU's. Supplier programs it to whatever the agreed upon parameters are as set by the 3 engines builders. Each unit is numbers. Prior to qualifying there is a draw for qualifying position, your draw number is the ECU # that you get from your engine builder. So for example I'll use Kroyer / Redline and Turnkey. If you run a Turnkey, and you draw 1st in qualifying, you get Turnkey box 1. If you draw 7th, you get which ever the next numeric sequence is according to however many before you have consumed that same builders ECU's. Each racer would get to own / keep a ECU for testing purposes, and trailer loading . But not allowed to race with that unit.
Sorry for the late reply. D
What about claimer motors? Isn't that how oval modified program works? My understanding is that top three or 5 have the ability on race night to put money up and swap motors in the pits. Let the big money teams put money in the motor and they may lose it at the next race.
This is how spec speedway works in Oz. For$5000 you can buy any of the top 3 competitors engines. Then it is up to you to prove it is a cheater or run it.
 

43mod

Well-Known Member
22 min round trip engine swap in my modified in the pits. If i won in my TL truck and you said pull the engine anywhere other than my shop after some needed rest i would tell you to pound sand. Looks to me most 6100 trucks are worse than a tl to swap.
 

Bro_Gill

Well-Known Member
22 min round trip engine swap in my modified in the pits. If i won in my TL truck and you said pull the engine anywhere other than my shop after some needed rest i would tell you to pound sand. Looks to me most 6100 trucks are worse than a tl to swap.
Just the tin to get to the top of the trans in a TL SUCKS!!!!!!! Ask me how I know.
 

MTPyle

Well-Known Member
The fact that all other spec racing has these types of rules and challenges proves the point.

We need more.

Unfortunately racers are a competitive group and give them a inch and they take a mile.

Edit- The one thing I do feel bad about with this topic is making honest guys feel like they are not trusted. Its as ugly topic and I didn't realize how personal many would take it. I guess I also get defensive when called a cheater, so I get it. For the guys that would never cheat its a hard thing to have someone say they think you are. So for the honest guys that I made feel uncomfortable, I apologize. For the cheaters that know who you are, just stop and follow the rules.

Mike
 
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ht racing

Well-Known Member
Mike
I consider you a friend, one that may have too much time on his hands. There may cheaters but I dont think any of the front runners are. We are a front running team and our motor never came out of our truck once all of the 2019 season. I agree on registering serial # to teams and more tags if it makes everyone feel better. We have won 2 championships in a 5000 Baja, limited tagged class, and a 2nd in 6100 in 2019 and dont believe any of the top teams are cheating. Its the driver as Kyle has proven.
if your cheating and get 15th who really cares anyway.....
 

MTPyle

Well-Known Member
if your cheating and get 15th who really cares anyway.....

Because if you cheat and get 15th you did not deserve it. There are plenty of teams that would feel good about a 15 finishing position with 40 competitive trucks.

We do not race for a podium as we doubt we will ever get there. We race for a top 10 and a big bonus if we got top 5. For us a top 10 would be like Travis Chase getting 2nd or 3rd. We used to race just to finish as that was a big accomplishment.

So that cheater that gets 15th took away a position from someone who earned it.

Mike
 

JDDurfey

Well-Known Member
So here is a question I don't believe has been answered.

Is the engine restricted to "level the playing field" or is it restricted to "keep costs down" or a combination of both?

Because if the idea is just to "level the playing field" then simply restrict intake size. During tech, a simple check would prove that the intake is the correct size. After the race, the top 5 automatically get a post race inspection to ensure that no changes were made after the pre race tech inspection.

However, if the rest of the engine is "open" then some teams are going to spend big money to make power and walk away from the guys that don't have the coin to do so.
 

ht racing

Well-Known Member
Because if you cheat and get 15th you did not deserve it. There are plenty of teams that would feel good about a 15 finishing position with 40 competitive trucks.

We do not race for a podium as we doubt we will ever get there. We race for a top 10 and a big bonus if we got top 5. For us a top 10 would be like Travis Chase getting 2nd or 3rd. We used to race just to finish as that was a big accomplishment.

So that cheater that gets 15th took away a position from someone who earned it.

Mike
but mike you say test the top 5 so how can you tear down the entire field of 40+ motors to find a 15th place cheater.
 

MTPyle

Well-Known Member
HT,

I know you are just arguing to argue with me, but I will play along.

My suggestion is to first track all tags and inspect all tags before the race to compare to Turnkey database of serial numbers. Currently a team can buy their own tags with different numbers and nobody would know. If they thought they would get caught with the wrong tag number they would be less likely to change tags.

Then test all top 5 qualifiers and top 10 finishers (they already pull the top 10 to check Vacuum and to look for a tag). The test should be simple and objective. ECU swap and scan and Whistler test.

If a team thinks they may get tested they will be less likely to push the rules. Kind of like how they call random race numbers at drivers meetings. If you think there is a chance your number will be called you are more likely to show up. That does not insure everyone shows up but it gets the majority to show up.

The overall idea is to make it more likely a cheater would get caught. If nobody is cheating and nobody gets caught then thats great. It's good for everyone to know the rules are being enforced at some level. No testing or enforcement will get 100% of the issues. But we need to try and get a higher percentage than we are getting now.

Mike
 

Jerry Zaiden

Well-Known Member
Simple... For people racing in BITD.

All engines sold by BITD
All Engines tagged by BITD
All engines inspected by BITD
If someone is thought to be cheating the person accusing pays the price to inspect engine. The cost would be that of a new engine. The accuser now owns the parts of that engine and the accused get a brand new engine. Nobody would be upset about this.

Very simple.

Otherwise it is what it is with a grey area. If you can buy an engine from multiple suppliers there can be cheating.

Another idea to make things more solid are - We need ONE supplier and one supplier only. All engines must be brand new in the box from GM and purchased by the engine supplier only. That means whoever the supplier is must buy that part number ONLY from GM and sell that part number ONLY to the race team. No re-building of engines or putting stock parts together to come up with the same kind of engine.

I also feel we need one engine supplier to do one engine that works in all the series. EXAMPLE said engine supplier TAGS the engine with one TAG recognized by all sanctioned bodies. This said engine supplier needs to be at the finish line at all races to inspect.

If someone is suspected of cheating same thing - If someone is thought to be cheating the person accusing pays the price to inspect engine. The cost would be that of a new engine. If someone is caught they are permanently banned from all racing in all sanctioned bodies.

My .02$

Otherwise leave things the way they are.
 
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ht racing

Well-Known Member
HT,

I know you are just arguing to argue with me, but I will play along.

My suggestion is to first track all tags and inspect all tags before the race to compare to Turnkey database of serial numbers. Currently a team can buy their own tags with different numbers and nobody would know. If they thought they would get caught with the wrong tag number they would be less likely to change tags.

Then test all top 5 qualifiers and top 10 finishers (they already pull the top 10 to check Vacuum and to look for a tag). The test should be simple and objective. ECU swap and scan and Whistler test.

If a team thinks they may get tested they will be less likely to push the rules. Kind of like how they call random race numbers at drivers meetings. If you think there is a chance your number will be called you are more likely to show up. That does not insure everyone shows up but it gets the majority to show up.

The overall idea is to make it more likely a cheater would get caught. If nobody is cheating and nobody gets caught then thats great. It's good for everyone to know the rules are being enforced at some level. No testing or enforcement will get 100% of the issues. But we need to try and get a higher percentage than we are getting now.

Mike
they have checked my tag pulled on it checked the numbers on the tag and now told me my tag is too old and needs to be replaced by a new style tag. these are the same guys at turnkey that sent me a motor without a tag that was supposed to be on there and waited 3 weeks to put a tag on it without any inspection at all! every race that i have got a top 5 they wrote down the tag number. not sure what else can be done. i really do not think there is enough time or help to do all the work to catch a back marker cheater. i really think if you were in the top 5 you would not be looking for cheaters. just being honest.
 

MTPyle

Well-Known Member
HT

if BITD is checking all tags and serial numbers that’s great. I just have never seen that in person but to be fair the top 5 are usually long gone by the time I get to the finish line. Haha. Only time we were in the top 10 was 7th in Laughlin and went thru the process of after race tech. I did not see them check all and or write down any tag numbers.

Personally I still think I would want the rules enforced even if I was winning. I am by nature a rule follower and want everyone else to be the same. It pisses me off when other do not follow the rules that I do follow.

Mike
 

ht racing

Well-Known Member
oh they are and i was getting pissed because the guy had a set of pliers pulling hard on the tag and had a clip board writing down numbers as far as i could tell its a turn key guy and a bitd guy doing it together. i have no idea normally tired and want to get out of the car but watching in the them in my mirror to see what there doing back there when my car is getting jerked around by some guy with a set of pliers.
 

MTPyle

Well-Known Member
Just got a great response from Donald at BITD about a lot of my concerns. I have asked him if I can share what he has said.

short story is he and Turnkey are taking this very serious and have been. They already own a Whistler and do many random checks. They have a great testing process they they continue to evolve.

One thing he said is that if a engine gets challenged and they have to tear it down they put it back together and re tag it. So it’s not junk. I thought it would be junk at that point.

I have learned a lot thru this process and glad that we are brining this up as a topic. This thread has brought a new fresh lite to rules and enforcement. BITD will be stepping up for sure.

also I was not aware that there had been a 6100 engine found to be modified and they were disqualified. I had not heard of that event.

Mike
 
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MTPyle

Well-Known Member
I am wearing this hat for the next couple days as a reminder. LOL. I am surprised that non of you guys bought me this. Haha I bought it myself awhile and just saw it in my closet. Hehe

Mike
 

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ht racing

Well-Known Member
Just got a great response from Donald at BITD about a lot of my concerns. I have asked him if I can share what he has said.

short story is he and Turnkey are taking this very serious and have been. They already own a Whistler and do many random checks. They have a great testing process they they continue to evolve.

One thing he said is that if a engine gets challenged and they have to tear it down they put it back together and re tag it. So it’s not junk. I thought it would be junk at that point.

I have learned a lot thru this process and glad that we are brining this up as a topic. This thread has brought a new fresh lite to rules and enforcement. BITD will be stepping up for sure.

also I was not aware that there had been a 6100 engine found to be modified and they were disqualified. I had not heard of that event.

Mike
not sure i would want my new gm crate tagged motor back after turnkey takes it apart unless its a oil pan and valve cover inspection.
 
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