is anyone using dust separators like cyclones or labyrinth in front of the filter to get some/most of the dust to drop out so it doesn't overwhelm the filter as quickly ?
that's great. I love when people actually do research and try things, rather than just following internet recipes. I figured that a properly sized separator would be large for the flow that would be required for an engine of that size. maybe having multiple filters to maximize filter area is an effective way to do this, after all.I have not seen any particle separators on Spec trucks other then the UMP canister, which is a type of particle separator. But many of the ones I have seen installed in spec trucks are in wrong and will not work as designed. And even if they are installed right they rob power. Ironically many take out the plastic part out of the UMP that does the separation of the particles. Then you are left with a horrible flowing can that does nothing.
We looked at putting in the large Donaldson Powercore industrial particle separators but to get the air flow a LS or LT needs they are huge, like 26x29x16, and even that is barely enough CFM. The guys that make the UTV ones are making one for full size trucks but its still super large and does not flow enough for a TTspec engine. I have done so much research on this and crunched all the numbers. We also tested our calculations on the dyne so we have a good idea of whats needed and the effects of restrictions on the SBC. I can tell you how many HP you lose per foot of intake tube, whats CFM you need at WOT, and how much a K&N falls off after used as we even tested dirty filters.
We are going to move our filter back into the cab, which is not what I want to do but I want the LT2 intake performance. Our plan is to make a custom large plenum box with flat K&N drop in filters, velocity stack, and custom Outerwear. The drop ins can be easily swapped and we can add enough surface area for long silt races like the B1K. We have to deal with heat and try to not make it huge. I think with enough filter surface area we can use the K&N and still get good results. Just another science project for us that hopefully I won't regret. LOL
In my opinion Air intake is a huge factor in spec racing and often overlooked. If I can make 20-30hp more than other trucks that's huge. And even better if it does not fall off as much on longer runs. Imagine having 95% power at the end of the B1K and others have 60%. Even a crap driver like me has a chance. Haha.
Mike...how much CFM do you fiqure you need for at WOT?We looked at putting in the large Donaldson Powercore industrial particle separators but to get the air flow a LS or LT needs they are huge, like 26x29x16, and even that is barely enough CFM. The guys that make the UTV ones are making one for full size trucks but its still super large and does not flow enough for a TTspec engine. I have done so much research on this and crunched all the numbers. We also tested our calculations on the dyne so we have a good idea of whats needed and the effects of restrictions on the SBC. I can tell you how many HP you lose per foot of intake tube, whats CFM you need at WOT, and how much a K&N falls off after used as we even tested dirty filters.
What powercore were you considering? The largest one that I know of is the PSD14 and that is 26X19X12. You don't think that this filter is large enough for your application?Honda48,
thats a good calculation. thanks for posting.
Thats the million dollar question. You can figure out required CFM via formulas that Honda just posted. Where is gets tricky is understanding the system. Let say you have a filter that can flow 1000cfm. That measurement is usually from filter surface and not measured on the output of the filter. So where the air goes into the intake tube has turbulence and restriction, which lowers your actual available CFM. Then you go thru a tube with maybe some turns. Each turn and each 1" of tube increases restriction, then MAF ads turbulence and restriction.
So it's not about what your filter can flow, it is how it gets to the Throttle body. So you have to measure the system not the parts of the system. The real tricky part is understanding turbulence. Out first intake tube wasn't super clean, we re did it and cleaned it up. We got another 10hp just from dealing with how the air moved thru the tube. Technically the CFM could have been calculated from the parts of the system but in the real world it did not flow what it should have.
So if we need X at the throttle body you need to calculate all the reductions. Then you need to figure lose due to dust load. It gets to be a long problem to work out. But we got there and proved our math on the dyno, well for the most part. LOL there is still a lot we do not know.
I wont go into the more complex part of understanding CFM and thats how its measured with pressure. You will see specs like CFM @ 6" H2O. So its not just about the CFM its how hard the engine has to work to pull that much CFM, or velocity required to achieve said CFM.
I am sure there are some engineers that know way more than I do but we figured out enough for our purpose. It's been helpful to have Whipple help is with these problems. You should see the CFD programs they have for Supercharger and intake designs. All they do is air flow.
Yup! Used them w/ lots of success. Lee Leighton, my engine building Yoda master turned me onto them yeasr ago. They had an inner and an outer you could use as well.Many years ago, K&N did filters literally called 'Shakers'. They were like an inverted cone. The idea was that as the cars hit bumps and bounced, the dirt would fall off the filter and away from filter material below the area just cleared. I think I still have a couple.
Late to the party here's a pic of the HM designed chassis. I should have the front suspension finish welded by the end of this month. I think from the cad file fuel cell should be around 103 gall with 98ish? usable. Lots of fun building this truck so far and learning a ton. Hope to have it a roller by end of Summer if everything goes as planned but we all know how that goes lol.Do you have more info on HM racing? I googled it and could not find any web site.
Sounds like a killer build.
I would go with 100 gallons if possible. Tank size really matters.
4.4" Fox bypasses will be amazing and the Camburg stuff is legit.