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6100, TTspec, Baja Truck only thread

Vdrive

Active Member
Good informative thread for us that aspire to move to 6100. Have been racing buggies since 07 when there is money and time to prep. I first took notice of the 6100 trucks on the Mint course a few years ago. Once we hit the big holes and real rough stuff, they would reel my older Class 1 in and go by. I was one of the last Class 1s still rocking 35's :) I think I either met you or some of your crew in the 2019 Mint 400 when you needed a spare power steering pump which you kindly rebuilt and sent back. I sold my Class 1 shortly before the madness started with the plan of taking a break from being team owner a few years to spend more time with my newest kiddo as prepping ate lots of time. The plan is (if I get another vehicle) to move to 6100 as the travel looks appealing. A few questions:

1) If you had 1-2 short races on your truck and were going to do a Baja 1000, what would driveline prep cost look like?

I ran an old Fields 3 speed in the Class 1 and if you talk to the trans builder you are supposed to send it in for prep after every race.... I prepped myself so didn't want to have to pull the engine after every race and found I could get 4-6 races out of it including 1 Baja 1000. Of course after that it would be trashed and I would pay the max for a rebuild. I think I once ran 2 Mint 400s, 1 Caliente 250, 300 prerun\test tune miles, and a Baja 1000 on the same build. To which the trans builder said "You did what?!?!?!?!??!?!!" :D That rebuild was something to the tune of $6500 plus shipping. With 35s I could hit 116 on the lake beds but that was bumping the rev limiter.

2) What do you prep\replace in the drive line for each race?

3) Hindsight is always crystal clear I know but....what are some things you learned and would do different looking back on the races you did in 6100?

I think everything else is pretty much the same as Class 1 costs in terms of shock prep, engine, electronics, etc. Thanks for starting the thread, good info here from several respected vets.
The length between service on your buggy would easily work as the same interval on a 6100 truck that was driven and treated nicely like your car was. My truck is a TT that has been de-motored To 6100 but still runs all TT components. The LS goes 3k miles racing then breaks the timing chain, the gear works th400 and Tubeworks underdrive seem to be indestructible with 525 hp ls. I plan on running 2500 race miles plus 2500 play miles on a full prep. This is with no problems and fresh oils every time out.
 

Vdrive

Active Member
at MC install a tee or a cross if you run gauges . After that install a needle valve . In between the Tees install a jumper line and one needle valve.
when you have a brake issue turn off f or rear . If it still goes to the floor open that one back up and close the other. If you get pedal back leave it closed and open up the center valve. If you just close off one MC it will typically bind up the balance bar and not allow enough travel for the working system to operate .
Getting all this close enough to the driver while strapped in really makes it handy and lets you get to the pits with part of the trouble shooting already done. Master cylinders stay full of fluid instead of pumping one of them dry as well. View attachment 215395
Thanks for this!!
 

MTPyle

Well-Known Member
SJ073

hey there. Thanks again for the PS pump. We didn’t end up swapping it out but it was great to have it as a option. Your guys were super cool and helpful.

we pretty much plan to freshen drivetrain at 1000 race miles.

our Fortin gets sent in for inspection and service every race. I think they charge around $200.

3rd member cost about $1200 for new bearings and service. I think that’s a little high and I may need to find a cheaper place.

we put fresh drivelines on each race. They cost about $300 to freshen up.

our trans gets torn down every 1000 miles and that usually runs $500-600

torque converter gets freshened at 1000 miles and that’s about $400.

then brakes usually need a set of pads and maybe a set or rotors. That’s averages $400

Shocks get freshened at 1000 miles also and that’s about $100 a shock.


so drivetrain is $3k per 1000 miles. I am sure it could go 2000 miles but we are trying to do all we can to get to that podium. So we do a little more than we may need to. We also find when we service more often we find things before they become really expensive repairs.

all of our regrets are from not listening to the truck in testing. Most of our race issues have been things that happened in the Prep and all of them we knew something wasn’t right. If I could go back I would listen to the truck and make sure we fix anything that does not seem right. We are trying to be super paranoid for this prep and question everything.

as an example when we tested for Parker 425 the starter was not engaging on the flexplate just right. It was making some noise that was not normal. That ended up being the fly wheel not aligned right due to crank spacer stuck in the crank. The truck was talking to us and we didn’t listen. Made it 30 miles into the race and flexplate broke Ending our chances of a good finish.

Mike
 

SJ073

Well-Known Member
The length between service on your buggy would easily work as the same interval on a 6100 truck that was driven and treated nicely like your car was. My truck is a TT that has been de-motored To 6100 but still runs all TT components. The LS goes 3k miles racing then breaks the timing chain, the gear works th400 and Tubeworks underdrive seem to be indestructible with 525 hp ls. I plan on running 2500 race miles plus 2500 play miles on a full prep. This is with no problems and fresh oils every time out.
I was lucky to have never broken a timing chain on my LS2 or LS3. The LS3 only had 2-2.5K race and test miles on it but the LS2 had well over that before I swapped it. I did fresh CV prep and inspection of drive line parts after every race. Bearings\races every 4-5 races. Brake pads every other race and rotors every 4-5 or so. It sounds like the TH400 is where it's at.

SJ073

hey there. Thanks again for the PS pump. We didn’t end up swapping it out but it was great to have it as a option. Your guys were super cool and helpful.

we pretty much plan to freshen drivetrain at 1000 race miles.

our Fortin gets sent in for inspection and service every race. I think they charge around $200.

3rd member cost about $1200 for new bearings and service. I think that’s a little high and I may need to find a cheaper place.

we put fresh drivelines on each race. They cost about $300 to freshen up.

our trans gets torn down every 1000 miles and that usually runs $500-600

torque converter gets freshened at 1000 miles and that’s about $400.

then brakes usually need a set of pads and maybe a set or rotors. That’s averages $400

Shocks get freshened at 1000 miles also and that’s about $100 a shock.


so drivetrain is $3k per 1000 miles. I am sure it could go 2000 miles but we are trying to do all we can to get to that podium. So we do a little more than we may need to. We also find when we service more often we find things before they become really expensive repairs.

all of our regrets are from not listening to the truck in testing. Most of our race issues have been things that happened in the Prep and all of them we knew something wasn’t right. If I could go back I would listen to the truck and make sure we fix anything that does not seem right. We are trying to be super paranoid for this prep and question everything.

as an example when we tested for Parker 425 the starter was not engaging on the flexplate just right. It was making some noise that was not normal. That ended up being the fly wheel not aligned right due to crank spacer stuck in the crank. The truck was talking to us and we didn’t listen. Made it 30 miles into the race and flexplate broke Ending our chances of a good finish.

Mike
Driveline prep doesn't seem too bad. Less than I thought it would be and you don't have to pull the motor every time like my rear engine car (do you?). I hope to get back to at least running 1-2 long races in a few years when things settle down. Good stuff all, thanks for the info.
 
All great info here! What is your guys typical prep for the fuel cell? How often are you physically draining and pulling the cell out checking for cracks, pulling bladder, pumps, etc. for prep? Got the upper arms finished up this past week and should have spindles finalized by early next week. Then it’s onto throwing tubes. Been a fun project so far but can’t wait to drive already!
 

Attachments

MTPyle

Well-Known Member
6100 was a large and very competitive group at this year’s Silverstate 300 that ended up only 220 miles.

watching back the love tracker map and looking at the times it was a crazy race. Lots of groups stuck together in the dust.

6100 SS300 leaderboard

any great story’s from the 6100 guys from this race?

Mike
 

mike_osborn

Active Member
I don't know about great stories, but it was one of those races for us. We were happy with a 9th place qualifying run. The truck ran great and everything felt like we were going to have a good race. We start the race and our comms go wacky about 1/2 mile in. The worst part is that everything was brand new. Coming out of Pit 2 (I believe), I get sucked into a soft corner and end up in a barbed wire fence. I knew I'd get stuck if I stopped so I just stayed in the gas. I was mowing down steel posts and barbed wire was going over the roof of my truck. I could hear the sound of it snapping...LOL.

Around mile 80, my co-driver starts getting sick and is blowing chunks. Somewhere around this time, I came around a blind corner (at race speed) and there's a Class 1 overturned in the course with a woman standing on the course between me and the overturned Class 1 waving me over the side of an embankment. I'm sure it wasn't actually as bad as it felt at the time, but it was one of those pucker moments, for sure. On a side note, I know who it was and she should know better. Why not stand up the hill or on the entry to the blind corner?

So, another 30-35 miles or so and I'm frustrated because I'm trying to drive by hand signals (when my navigator isn't puking) when I notice a slight delay when shifting from 2nd to 3rd. A few miles later, I can feel my transmission bouncing between 2nd and 3rd when it's supposed to be in 3rd. Another 5-10 miles and there's no 3rd at all. We go as fast as we can to Pit 4 and, without a spare transmission, end up calling it a race. I didn't know they cut the race short until I'd been in the pit for about an hour. Had I known, I probably would have tried to finish - but with how that day was going, I'd have lost the transmission completely and ended up spending the night in the desert.
 

MTPyle

Well-Known Member
Oh man. That sounds like most of our races this year. Haha

sucks when you get new stuff and it does not work.

that section from pit 2 thru RM80 is a roller coaster. if I was looking at a GPS I would have thrown up also.

have you found out it what happened to the trans?

thanks for taking the time to tell us your experience. It’s kind of like the race only happened for us. We don’t get to really hear what others went thru.

oh and I saw that fence you went thru. Haha. The CS racing guys got all tangled into it as well. Here is the part of the fence that made it all the way to Pit3.

Mike
F671B724-2CF2-469A-9AD4-08D94A15334B.jpeg
 

mike_osborn

Active Member
Well, I figured I enjoy reading your stuff so much that I would contribute a little.

Trans is out for inspection. Haven't heard back.

That's pretty funny that the fence made it that far! I was hoping I wasn't the only one. It kind of felt like a dipshit move. 😂
 

jon coleman

Well-Known Member
I've had that same 'sperience on a hi speed blind corner, (except it was the required safety triangle reflector,instead of the drivers), AFTER YOUR GOING AROUND FAST CORNER, RIGHT IN FRONT OF THE CAR!!!, well luckily there was room to squeeze by at about 50 mph, still pucker factor 7 outa 10
 

SJ073

Well-Known Member
All great info here! What is your guys typical prep for the fuel cell? How often are you physically draining and pulling the cell out checking for cracks, pulling bladder, pumps, etc. for prep? Got the upper arms finished up this past week and should have spindles finalized by early next week. Then it’s onto throwing tubes. Been a fun project so far but can’t wait to drive already!
If I remember the rules and guidance correctly you are supposed to replace your bladder every 7 years or sooner if they develop wear, cuts etc. I had one that was 9-10 years before it started to leak. In the months between races would make sure there was 15-20+gallons of race fuel in it. fuel pumps, replaced every 2-4 years. Cleaned both micron fuel filters after every race just to make sure there were no issues creeping up on me. Fuel lines seemed to last as long as the bladder did. always make sure your pickup is good and snug......seeping air into the pickup is a fun one to troubleshoot in the middle of nowhere. :D
 

mebedb1

Well-Known Member
A bad AN flare at the fuel pump cost us a shot to run with the boys. thought we had a vapor lock issue...
Monday morning, after the 300, we found the issue.

Edit: I tried to post the video, we capped and pressurized the line, in the shop sink, going Into the fuel pump
and found the flare blowing bubbles.
 
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MTPyle

Well-Known Member
That sucks. Last year at V2R we had bad fuel issues. Been chasing it ever since. We have totally replaced every part in the system and upgraded everything and it still seems like something is wrong I think we have a air leak on the feed to the pump which is putting air into our fuel. When it gets hot it vapor locks.

Since we upgraded everything it’s not been a problem but I still think we have a issue and I bet it’s a fitting. We replaced all the lines from the pump but not to the pumps. I think we will replace the rest now. The pump makes sound like it’s getting air.

Mike
 

jon coleman

Well-Known Member
A bad AN flare at the fuel pump cost us a shot to run with the boys. thought we had a vapor lock issue...
Monday morning, after the 300, we found the issue.

Edit: I tried to post the video, we capped and pressurized the line, in the shop sink, going Into the fuel pump
and found the flare blowing bubbles.
seat those flares!, , as your snugging up, rotate f& m flare ends back& forth, taking out any bumps, ridges, ect.sorta like lapping valves, i find eng. oil works best, some use anti seeze on the aluminum threads too
 

mebedb1

Well-Known Member
That sucks. Last year at V2R we had bad fuel issues. Been chasing it ever since. We have totally replaced every part in the system and upgraded everything and it still seems like something is wrong I think we have a air leak on the feed to the pump which is putting air into our fuel. When it gets hot it vapor locks.

Since we upgraded everything it’s not been a problem but I still think we have a issue and I bet it’s a fitting. We replaced all the lines from the pump but not to the pumps. I think we will replace the rest now. The pump makes sound like it’s getting air.

Mike
The guy's at the shop tore into the fuel cell first thing Monday, well probably some coffee and bench racing first, by 10 ish I was sent the video. Pure dumb luck, quality control issue. Had nothing to do with the installation, JC.
Talked to Dusty today, he's taken that fitting out of the equation.
 

SJ073

Well-Known Member
That sucks. Last year at V2R we had bad fuel issues. Been chasing it ever since. We have totally replaced every part in the system and upgraded everything and it still seems like something is wrong I think we have a air leak on the feed to the pump which is putting air into our fuel. When it gets hot it vapor locks.

Since we upgraded everything it’s not been a problem but I still think we have a issue and I bet it’s a fitting. We replaced all the lines from the pump but not to the pumps. I think we will replace the rest now. The pump makes sound like it’s getting air.

Mike
In the '17 Mint 400 we saw an air leak in the pickup issue manifest in the form of sporadic fuel pressure with it going up and down and then finally failing to sustain fuel pressure. Cracked fuel line on engine and had air in the lines, chased every fitting until we found loose pickup :S
 

jcorsico

Well-Known Member
That sucks. Last year at V2R we had bad fuel issues. Been chasing it ever since. We have totally replaced every part in the system and upgraded everything and it still seems like something is wrong I think we have a air leak on the feed to the pump which is putting air into our fuel. When it gets hot it vapor locks.

Since we upgraded everything it’s not been a problem but I still think we have a issue and I bet it’s a fitting. We replaced all the lines from the pump but not to the pumps. I think we will replace the rest now. The pump makes sound like it’s getting air.

Mike
As you suggest, you may have a leak inside the fuel bladder. That was a problem with my road racing car. The factory used fuel hoses inside the cell that were not rated for constant fuel immersion. After a few years, the hoses would break down enough that they would start to leak. But, because the leak was inside the bladder, you'd never discover the leak until it was serious enough that the pump couldn't overcome the leaking.

If you are having issues with flares leaking, you can use a conical seal. This is a soft aluminum washer that you put on the flare. Because it's soft, it will mold around small defects on the flare surface as the fitting is tightened. For example: Earls 169212ERL Earls Conical Seal
 
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