6100, TTspec, T2, Baja Truck only thread

MTPyle

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Not saying you should add 5000lb extra to a truck to go faster.

the heavier trucks are tougher and smoother. They are more reliable and don’t break. Trying to lighten a truck to make it faster means you make it weaker and less stable. There is a balance.

either way the data is pretty clear. Full size 6000lb TTspecs are winning. Not 4500lb trucks.

but if we are saying the truck does not matter and only the driver matters than all bets are off. But even the best driver in a weaker truck can break things. So in my opinion the heavier trucks are more reliable and stable. They break less.

Mike
 

BajaAddict

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I think heavier is better is a pretty ignorant statement. There has to be a sweet spot with weight. What it is, I don’t know? 5000? 5500? 6000 sounds a little heavy to me but I’m sure people make it work? What does an older tt weigh? Class 10s are pretty light, they seem to be pretty fast. The lighter 6200 smoked all the spec trucks until a mechanical? What is H/S formula? a heavy spec truck or a light tt?? (I don’t know how much of this really matters with the right guy behind the wheel)
Lighter is faster... on a flat track.
 

bajafox

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I think heavier is better is a pretty ignorant statement. There has to be a sweet spot with weight. What it is, I don’t know? 5000? 5500? 6000 sounds a little heavy to me but I’m sure people make it work? What does an older tt weigh? Class 10s are pretty light, they seem to be pretty fast. The lighter 6200 smoked all the spec trucks until a mechanical? What is H/S formula? a heavy spec truck or a light tt?? (I don’t know how much of this really matters with the right guy behind the wheel)
That's what I was trying to figure out. I'm not trying to start a debate if lighter is faster or not. The truck we race was built on the lighter side but came in way heavier than we expected. It's 5 years old now and just got updated from the builder a few months ago, we won't get to see how well it holds up until the 1000.

The original idea for 6200 was to bring out all the old parked unlimited cars, throw in a spec motor and go racing, until a purpose built 6200 came out and smoked everything in its sights.
 

MTPyle

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According to the Brenthel website, their 6100 is under 5000# ready to go full of fuel. Jergenson seems to drive rough roads pretty well in it?

I really doubt the Brenthal 6100 truck that Kyle races is under 5000lbs. I bet its closer to 6000lbs. I don't care what the web site says.

It's kind of an odd argument you are making. But then I just remembered you have a Armada. So you are just really hoping lighter is faster. Haha I actually think lighter is faster until its not. Smaller shocks fade faster and lighter chassis break more. So it's really not a who is faster argument. Its about who wins. Lighter does not win. Heavy wins.

Fact is every Herbst 6100 thats winning is the same truck as the TT. I believe the Brenthal 6100 thats winning is same as their TT. Many of the Geiser are the TT chassis. The TSCO 6100 thats fast is the same as the TSCO TT.

I don't see too many light weight trucks winning 6100 or TTspec races.

Mike
 

BajaAddict

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According to the Brenthel website, their 6100 is under 5000# ready to go full of fuel. Jergenson seems to drive rough roads pretty well in it?
A 5000# Brenthel vs another 6000# TTSpec is different then 2750# vs 5000#/6000#

I think heavier is better is a pretty ignorant statement. There has to be a sweet spot with weight. What it is, I don’t know? 5000? 5500? 6000 sounds a little heavy to me but I’m sure people make it work? What does an older tt weigh? Class 10s are pretty light, they seem to be pretty fast. The lighter 6200 smoked all the spec trucks until a mechanical? What is H/S formula? a heavy spec truck or a light tt?? (I don’t know how much of this really matters with the right guy behind the wheel)
I was referring to your comment about 6200's "smoking" all the spec trucks at V2R. They are roughly half the weight with roughly the same horsepower, they better be faster on a flat track. And when I say rough roads I'm not talking about a couple whoops/rocks here and there. I'm talking about San Felipe, Barstow, Johnson Valley, Jean, etc.. Same old debate... Buggy vs/ Truck.

With that being said... How many times has a 6200 even beat a 6100? Once?
 

bajafox

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I really doubt the Brenthal 6100 truck that Kyle races is under 5000lbs. I bet its closer to 6000lbs. I don't care what the web site says.

It's kind of an odd argument you are making. But then I just remembered you have a Armada. So you are just really hoping lighter is faster. Haha I actually think lighter is faster until its not. Smaller shocks fade faster and lighter chassis break more. So it's really not a who is faster argument. Its about who wins. Lighter does not win. Heavy wins.

Fact is every Herbst 6100 thats winning is the same truck as the TT. I believe the Brenthal 6100 thats winning is same as their TT. Many of the Geiser are the TT chassis. The TSCO 6100 thats fast is the same as the TSCO TT.

I don't see too many light weight trucks winning 6100 or TTspec races.

Mike
So if that's the case, then the only difference in price are the motor and transmission package? The difference has to be $100k+ between a full blown Brenthel/Herbst/TSCO TT and a TTSpec, probably even more than that

Wasn't that long ago the Camburg TTSpec was running with the TT's either and if I remember correctly, that was a pretty heavy truck also
 

SMS81

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wasn’t making an argument for any, more just looking for the facts of what is running up front. Yes, I have a light armada truck that is fast and gives you the ability to add weight where you want it if needed. The right drivers have made that package work. So what is the sweet spot for weight?

BTW, I dune my armada 2 times a week and that package works for me. I wouldn’t want a heavier truck. If all I did was play in the desert maybe I would change rides, maybe not?
 

BajaAddict

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So if that's the case, then the only difference in price are the motor and transmission package? The difference has to be $100k+ between a full blown Brenthel/Herbst/TSCO TT and a TTSpec, probably even more than that

Wasn't that long ago the Camburg TTSpec was running with the TT's either and if I remember correctly, that was a pretty heavy truck also
Yes, that's the main difference. I think the Gibbs motor package is like $100k by itself (don't quote me on that). Then add computers, wiring, and depending on the manufacturer, different transmissions, cooler setup, fans, etc... It starts to add up.
 

McCredie A

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wasn’t making an argument for any, more just looking for the facts of what is running up front. Yes, I have a light armada truck that is fast and gives you the ability to add weight where you want it if needed. The right drivers have made that package work. So what is the sweet spot for weight?

BTW, I dune my armada 2 times a week and that package works for me. I wouldn’t want a heavier truck. If all I did was play in the desert maybe I would change rides, maybe not?

You weeks sounds a lot cooler than mine. And probably a lot cooler than most people replying here. Keep enjoying your ride and post some pics of you duning it!
 

MTPyle

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figured I would recap our LT1 experience so people can make an informed decision.

Here is a list of engine problems we had in order. This is factual and not holding anything back. We take responsibility for our mistakes and I am open about what Turnkey did wrong.

DNF #1 Fault -Turnkey
First race with LT1 was Parker. We broke the flex plate 30 miles in. Come to find out Turnkey sent us the wrong engine part number and we got the manual trans crate engine that had the plug in the crank. So the torque converter bound up. We got it going but not in enough time to make the last lap.

DNF #2 Fault -Turnkey
Second race was laughlin. Long story short when Turnkey sent us the engine they created a front accessory system. When we got the engine a month late and only a week before the first race of the season. We went to put the belt on and the belt went right thru the water pump outlet. So the belt system didnt work. We had to add a small idler pulley to make it work. We did not have the time to reengineer the accessory system. At Lauhglin it was super muddy and wet and that idler got fried. It was small and spinning really fast. So the belt came off and the idler was not usable.

DNF#3 Fault -hard to pin this on any one person but the lack of knowledge on the LT1 got us. Nobody we talked to knew what was wrong.
From Day 1 with the LT1 it would do odd things with throttle. We tried everything and could not get it to work right. During testing the week of the mint I finally called GM performance and found a tech that knew what he was doing. He said the LT needs a vehicle speed sensor. The LS did not. So it was basically going into a limp mode until the peddle went back to zero. So you hit the gas and it dies and you have to lift to get it to go again. It did not happen 100% which made it very hard to drive. Long story short the only way to get the right sensor signal was to get a Dakota Digital GPS sensor that outputs the right signal to the ECM. We rushed to get that in before the race and during all the trouble shooting we messed up the wires to the throttle body. The throttle body failed on Lap 2 after we hit a huge cross wash. Then on lap 3 the GPS sensor failed and it was back to running like crap. We finally got the right sensor machined into our Reid case and solved that problem.

DNF#4 Fault -Ours
We got a fresh motor in and during that process we decided to remove the thermostat. Not understanding how the LS water pump works with the thremostat removed and the bypass not plugged the pump basically feeds its self and short circuits. Engine got hot and blew the head-gasket. This was 100% on us.

We had fuel delvivery issues all along but it was found to be the wrong Holley fuel mat with only -6 fitting on the feed side of the pump. This caused a few DNF's including SF250 and lots of failed fuel pumps. This was totally our fault and has since been fixed.

DNF#5 Fault - Ours
We were trying to solve the fuel system issue and put in some fancy pumps that had fuel controllers. The guys welded the fuel controller mounts right next to the engine ECM. Basically the ECM slowly failed at the Legacy Baja 600 race. 50 miles from the finish it would not start and we DNF'd.

DNF #6 Fault - Ours
After we replaced the ECM we ran it on the dyno and all seemed good. Took it out testing and 40 miles in the #8 cyl Pushrod broke. Took the truck to Turnkey and the replaced the Push Rod and rocker. We went to race it last weekend and 40 miles in the engine blew. My theory is when the engine ECM was failing it caused some internal issues. Or during the troubleshooting process on the dyno the engine got hurt. Either way I dont think the engine just blew on its own. We knew it wasn't 100%.


So of all of the problems we have had the only issue that I would blame on the engine is that it requires a vehicle speed sensor. The rest of the problems were not the engines fault. And even that problem should have been known but Turnkey or someone. I do not blame the engine for our issues and am happy we have it. It makes a little less HP than the LS3 but more Torque. It does not need all the mods that the LS3 needs. But you have to buy a LT2 intake manifold and there is a mod to the crank sensor to make the LS water pump fit. But the oil pump is good and no need to upgrade timing or fuel rail.

ID designs is working on a new accessory plate for the LT1 to use LS accessories. The LT accessories can not be used.


Mike
 

rampageman

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This Jimco in it's current config with a small block, T400, and underdrive comes in at 6075 wet. Bypasses are 4.4's I'm with Mike, I'd rather have a heavier truck that can take aa beating in the rough, even if its slower across the flat's. Losing 300 hp is going to be a little depressing, but my wallet with thank me.

It's currently down getting wrapped now. should be done in a couple of days.
240449614_938759063385446_3785502231506799700_n.jpg
 

MTPyle

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I think we do but has not been proven. We are putting in a new engine and will know soon. Won’t happen before B400 so that’s a bummer. Our next race is Laughlin BITD. But we plan to test the hell out of it before then.

our fuel, cooling and oil systems are dialed. So I think if we start with a fresh engine we will be good.

Mike
 

MTPyle

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Here is a good video of the difference between LT1 and LS3.

Motul truck has LS3 and BFG the CS Racing truck is Alumicraft with LS3 and Toyo tires.

I cant drive well and our breaks sucked back then. We are also more narrow so dont hold the berm as well. You can see I have to get out of it in the corners and they catch me. But on pure power pull our truck was faster. The LT1 pulls harder than the LS3.

Mike

Edit- Both of these trucks racing us are not top finishers. I am sure a new Herbst Truck would blow by us and make us look slow as hell.

 
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jcorsico

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I believe the Brenthal 6100 thats winning is same as their TT.
This is correct. There is only one Brenthel Gen III chassis. The only difference between 6100 and TT is motor. Plus, the people who buy a TT also usually spend more on accessories, like electronics.
 
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