6100, TTspec, T2, Baja Truck only thread

jon coleman

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i would just go nos, easy to do, yes , its cheeting, but it makes up for my skills, lack thereof..
 

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Bro_Gill

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YOUR HIRED !!!

I do believe you have a valid course of action.
I have been a proponent of every class doing something similar over the years. When all rules were basically based on SCORE's rule book, even with several promoters, it made class groups and class reps easier to be the mouth piece to the promoters. I think it really started to get screwed up when 7, 7s, and 7 4x4 were created to give the manufacturers more classes with the same platform to win in. It's only gotten worse since then. Class 6100 actually has a better profile for professional racing stature due to the limits placed on the class rather than the open specs. Nascar has rules for chassis, engine, fuel capacity, tires, etc... because it makes for close, competitive racing and that leads to more fans and and a more marketable product for viewing. Trophy/Trick Truck is of course top of the heap as far as performance goes, but I don't think it as as much potential to provide the racing stories that 6100 does. Class 10 and 6100 have tighter racing precisely because, while unlimited funds help teams throughout the season, some of the rules give teams with less funds an even table to play on during a race.

And FWIW, I would have no problem sticking money in the bank for you guys and handing it out at the end of the year. I don't race a Spec Truck, probably never will as I don't foresee having that kind of disposable income in the near future that would be needed. I just want to see racers race and have a great time doing it. Makes it better for everyone.
 

Ikaika

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I have been a proponent of every class doing something similar over the years. When all rules were basically based on SCORE's rule book, even with several promoters, it made class groups and class reps easier to be the mouth piece to the promoters. I think it really started to get screwed up when 7, 7s, and 7 4x4 were created to give the manufacturers more classes with the same platform to win in. It's only gotten worse since then. Class 6100 actually has a better profile for professional racing stature due to the limits placed on the class rather than the open specs. Nascar has rules for chassis, engine, fuel capacity, tires, etc... because it makes for close, competitive racing and that leads to more fans and and a more marketable product for viewing. Trophy/Trick Truck is of course top of the heap as far as performance goes, but I don't think it as as much potential to provide the racing stories that 6100 does. Class 10 and 6100 have tighter racing precisely because, while unlimited funds help teams throughout the season, some of the rules give teams with less funds an even table to play on during a race.

And FWIW, I would have no problem sticking money in the bank for you guys and handing it out at the end of the year. I don't race a Spec Truck, probably never will as I don't foresee having that kind of disposable income in the near future that would be needed. I just want to see racers race and have a great time doing it. Makes it better for everyone.

Bro_Gill,

I am in complete agreement with your position.........and cannot understand why there is so much controversy.

For the record,........we have been building our 6100 for some time now.
We are not a "Professional" Team,......but we do believe that our combined exposure and experience would directly contribute in a positive way to having a competitive run once we finally get most ( if not all ) of the bugs worked out.

During our process, I have witnessed the rule change ( from 430hp / 37" tires & no underdrive ) to what it currently is.
I have stated this before and will say it again,.....for us, that rule change wasn't as costly as it could have been if we already had a complete and running rig that needed the necessary changes to morph into the new rules of the 525hp, 40" tires & underdrive.
For some teams, this change also involved a complete brake package change, shock change & tune, third member / gear ratios and a host of "other" things that are not immediately evident until the actual change begins on each rig.

I'll use Mr. Pyle as an example,......he did choose to utilize the LT1 platform although it was not the engine of choice.....it was merely "approved" as an alternative to the "outgoing" LS3 platform, and he chose to go that route for his own reasons.
I understand his thinking of "getting ahead of the game" which may very well pay off in the long haul, but it seems as though he has completely reconfigured his rig to accommodate the underdrive, 40" tires etc......there is clear & documented evidence that his rig has undergone brake upgrades, cooling system upgrades, suspension package upgrades, fuel cell & management upgrades etc...( the list is long )......not to far off of a complete "re-do".
This ( to some degree ) is in connection to the rule changes.......whether it was meant to have comparable equipment or any other reason which may have been deemed necessary to be "competitive".

Any "pending" rule changes in the pipeline to include aftermarket ECU's, non rebuildable LS3 units etc... will only serve to defeat the initial goal of the class over the long haul.....in my opinion.

I am in agreement that there is "power in numbers" and "IF" the body of current 6100 players would somehow come to terms with coming together for the good & betterment of the class and the spirit of competition, the outcome would serve to advance the class as a whole and keep the goal posts from moving every 2 years or so.

In addition, I am also in agreement with another post here limiting air intake, fuel grade & limiting ECU configuration.
The argument against the fuel, air & spark issue is one of "what would the builders do to meet the new requirements"?.....the answer is simple,.......they would figure out a new route for the intake, find the best fuel that meets the requirements and are within the boundaries of the rules and go racing.

Promoters have the authority to design the rules as they see fit.......without question.

Racers have the ability to manipulate those rules by creating a "body of power" with a powerful voice to be heard by the organizing group.......or simply go race their rigs elsewhere.

I for one, was drawn to this class while it was under the old rules as it relates to BITD ( 430hp, 37" tires and no underdrive ).........I / We have "morphed out build not because we agreed,.......but because the new rules were more in line with SCORE which made sense in regards to being able to participate in "either" organization within the rules without a huge disparity between them in terms of price & performance.

I propose the following: ( in no particular order )

** Rebuildable LS3 engines with the "air / fuel / spark" restrictions
** NO AWD ( all wheel drive ) or mid-engine chassis / suspension designs
** TH-400 based transmission with underdrive
** Leave these proposed rules in place for a minimum of 10 years from date of acceptance or implementation
** NON racer based review board for rule enforcement / decisions on racing incidents

NOTE to Mr Pyle:

I hope I didn't ruffle any feathers.......& I feel your pain.

Fire away !!
 

MTPyle

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Ikaika

No offense taken at all. Thanks for sharing your perspective.

We did have to make a lot of changes for the new rules. But we also had to change a lot to get the truck right

Personally I think the rules are fine. Just need to enforce them.

You guys would be shocked at all the different intake setups and locations. It would be huge to make everyone change that and some would not be able to.

Any rule change will cost the fleet money.

I saw BITD takes the 6100 rules more seriously than ever at this last race. They are setting up to be even better for 2022

I don’t want to mess with more changes. We are finally done messing with our truck. Haha

Mike
 

critter81

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Jon

Tune and fuel can add a lot of power to a engine at least 50hp but more.

50hp does make a difference in spec. I have passed a few trucks on power alone and we are not at the top of the power food chain like the Herbst trucks. I can’t imagine how easy is it for them to pass a normal truck.

And yes gearing and set up matter. Lots of ways to add power legally. Pretty sure Grawbowksi has the Mason billet 3rd member that puts about 15hp more to the ground. It cost $12k.

Mike
Thats my point thanks...You want an even playing field in spec racing control the tune and fuel..
 

critter81

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Bro_Gill,

I am in complete agreement with your position.........and cannot understand why there is so much controversy.

For the record,........we have been building our 6100 for some time now.
We are not a "Professional" Team,......but we do believe that our combined exposure and experience would directly contribute in a positive way to having a competitive run once we finally get most ( if not all ) of the bugs worked out.

During our process, I have witnessed the rule change ( from 430hp / 37" tires & no underdrive ) to what it currently is.
I have stated this before and will say it again,.....for us, that rule change wasn't as costly as it could have been if we already had a complete and running rig that needed the necessary changes to morph into the new rules of the 525hp, 40" tires & underdrive.
For some teams, this change also involved a complete brake package change, shock change & tune, third member / gear ratios and a host of "other" things that are not immediately evident until the actual change begins on each rig.

I'll use Mr. Pyle as an example,......he did choose to utilize the LT1 platform although it was not the engine of choice.....it was merely "approved" as an alternative to the "outgoing" LS3 platform, and he chose to go that route for his own reasons.
I understand his thinking of "getting ahead of the game" which may very well pay off in the long haul, but it seems as though he has completely reconfigured his rig to accommodate the underdrive, 40" tires etc......there is clear & documented evidence that his rig has undergone brake upgrades, cooling system upgrades, suspension package upgrades, fuel cell & management upgrades etc...( the list is long )......not to far off of a complete "re-do".
This ( to some degree ) is in connection to the rule changes.......whether it was meant to have comparable equipment or any other reason which may have been deemed necessary to be "competitive".

Any "pending" rule changes in the pipeline to include aftermarket ECU's, non rebuildable LS3 units etc... will only serve to defeat the initial goal of the class over the long haul.....in my opinion.

I am in agreement that there is "power in numbers" and "IF" the body of current 6100 players would somehow come to terms with coming together for the good & betterment of the class and the spirit of competition, the outcome would serve to advance the class as a whole and keep the goal posts from moving every 2 years or so.

In addition, I am also in agreement with another post here limiting air intake, fuel grade & limiting ECU configuration.
The argument against the fuel, air & spark issue is one of "what would the builders do to meet the new requirements"?.....the answer is simple,.......they would figure out a new route for the intake, find the best fuel that meets the requirements and are within the boundaries of the rules and go racing.

Promoters have the authority to design the rules as they see fit.......without question.

Racers have the ability to manipulate those rules by creating a "body of power" with a powerful voice to be heard by the organizing group.......or simply go race their rigs elsewhere.

I for one, was drawn to this class while it was under the old rules as it relates to BITD ( 430hp, 37" tires and no underdrive ).........I / We have "morphed out build not because we agreed,.......but because the new rules were more in line with SCORE which made sense in regards to being able to participate in "either" organization within the rules without a huge disparity between them in terms of price & performance.

I propose the following: ( in no particular order )

** Rebuildable LS3 engines with the "air / fuel / spark" restrictions
** NO AWD ( all wheel drive ) or mid-engine chassis / suspension designs
** TH-400 based transmission with underdrive
** Leave these proposed rules in place for a minimum of 10 years from date of acceptance or implementation
** NON racer based review board for rule enforcement / decisions on racing incidents

NOTE to Mr Pyle:

I hope I didn't ruffle any feathers.......& I feel your pain.

Fire away !!
YES!!!!!!!!!!
 

51rcr

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Maybe be better for them to embrace it then fight it. Make the most out of there race that gets picked. Of course and not take advantage of it. Competition is good. Offer the best and people will come, even if its more
$.
 

Slippery P

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Jon

Tune and fuel can add a lot of power to a engine at least 50hp but more.

50hp does make a difference in spec. I have passed a few trucks on power alone and we are not at the top of the power food chain like the Herbst trucks. I can’t imagine how easy is it for them to pass a normal truck.

And yes gearing and set up matter. Lots of ways to add power legally. Pretty sure Grawbowksi has the Mason billet 3rd member that puts about 15hp more to the ground. It cost $12k.

Mike
10hp more on our dyno…
 

Argentino

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Ikaika

No offense taken at all. Thanks for sharing your perspective.

We did have to make a lot of changes for the new rules. But we also had to change a lot to get the truck right

Personally I think the rules are fine. Just need to enforce them.

You guys would be shocked at all the different intake setups and locations. It would be huge to make everyone change that and some would not be able to.

Any rule change will cost the fleet money.

I saw BITD takes the 6100 rules more seriously than ever at this last race. They are setting up to be even better for 2022

I don’t want to mess with more changes. We are finally done messing with our truck. Haha

Mike
Except the tire on the track rule. Let's not enforce that one.
 

10 shot

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I want to see a video of anyone that has a correct tune on a ls3 525 6100 change the fuel and punch in a magic mystery tune and get 50 hp or more out of it piggy back ecu whatever. Please post I'm waiting..........
 

MTPyle

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Except the tire on the track rule. Let's not enforce that one.

Not sure what your point is.

The rule is to prevent people from purposely leaving flats in the desert to not have to rack them.

Kyle racked his tire and it fell off 4 miles from where they changed the tire. They did not want or mean to have to fall off. The rule was not made to give a penalty for a accidental lose of tire that is on your rack.

No truck driver wants to have a tire come off the rack. The tires give traction and balance. Once it’s in the rack there is no advantage to have it come out.

That rule has been a subjective rule since day one. I have lost many tires off our rack and have never got a penalty because we did not leave one on purpose.

That being said I do not have all the info to know exactly what happened. I have some of the story and I know what I would have done. But there is always more to the story. And I am hearing there are some other penalties that may be coming for Concrete for cutting the course.

Mike
 

jon coleman

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I want to see a video of anyone that has a correct tune on a ls3 525 6100 change the fuel and punch in a magic mystery tune and get 50 hp or more out of it piggy back ecu whatever. Please post I'm waiting..........
let me be more specific, yes a correct tune, not something that I tuned😵
 
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