7s motors...again

Rodney

Well-Known Member
I see SCORE has added another class, 7sx....WHAT? I think SAL has finally gone senile. Just what we needed, another class. Maybe we can divide the class by the color too.

Winning IS everything
 

Kritter

Krittro Campbell
Obviously he just wants the entries...it doesnt matter to him if there are a few here and a few there.

Kris
"Buy American before it's too late"
 

pciscott

Well-Known Member
There are only 5 entries in the class so I do not think many will be pissed off. I saw valid points to go either way on the issue, but with indecision and bickering among promoters and racers the class was suffering. How many new trucks have been built in the last year? Class 10 made a split a few years back because the older cars were not as competitive, some people were pissed, but now we have two great classes. Class 12 is a much more affordable class than class 10. It took a few years for numbers to go up, but in the long run both classes grew. Now the way I read it no one can build a tall deck motor in 7s and walk all over everyone (sorry for the few of you who have these motors.) If you have a new truck that came with a larger motor you can run 7sx. With two classes everyone can find there place and make plans to run there truck, no more battles and bickering amongst friends and racers. Now lets look at the other side of the coin. Originally a core group of 7s guys who were running at the time went to Sal and said here is our petition signed by many racers to run bigger motors. Sal makes the change because that is what the 7s guys want and after a few races everyone starts getting pissed because of the cost to build a new motor. Now the guy with the old motor parks his truck or goes and races somewhere else because he will not be competitive. Plus no new cars are being built because speculation has it that the rule could go either way. If the rule would have went back to the past many trucks that spent big bucks to built there truck with a bigger motor would get screwed. If the rule would have gone big motor many cars would have been parked or run other promoters, in all your truck would have been worth less. Now everyone wins, all older 7s trucks that are sitting parked can come out and play. If you want to push the horsepower envelope you can build a 7sx. I know everyone will not agree with my opinion, but more people win with the way it went down. I would sure like to read the private 7s board right now and see what the racers who race 7s feel about this change. Good luck guys, hope to see more of you racing soon.

God Bless America

Scott Steinberger Trophy Truck #7
 

AllwaysRcn

Well-Known Member
Maybe there are only five entries in the class because the rest are racing Parker. If he wants to see the class grow, bring in a factory contingency program like Ford with BITD.
 

martininsocal

Well-Known Member
I am glad some kind of decission has been made. I don't know whether it will help the entire series, but I think it will help with the mexico car counts. The 500 and 1000 will see more older trucks come out to compete just because in is baja and they have a place to run. As for contingency, Cab someone tell us why Ford doesn't support SCORE like BITD? Deals? TV deal? Old feelings? Past preference to other manufacturers? Engine rules that favor one brand over another? HHhhmmmmmm.....

If your gonna go, go BIG
 

NorCal_Prerunner

Well-Known Member
As far as SCORE goes, can I run a 02 Toyota Tacoma 3.4Liter in 7s, or does that fall into 7sx? My answer is probably in the other 7s motor thread.

It's never too late to be what you might have been....
 

pciscott

Well-Known Member
AllwaysRcn, How many entries are there in 7s at Parker? I think the Contingency that Ford puts up for BITD is great for our sport. I have got a few checks from Ford and the extra cash is nice. I have asked Ford why they do not support Score and there answer is that they will not deal with races in Mexico. I do not know why this is but last year there was no Ford money at the BITD Baja Mex 300. I think you are right that there will be a good turn out at Parker, but 7s has not had big entries in the past couple years in either series regardless of the Ford money. I think this decision will help get more 7s racers back to the track.

God Bless America

Scott Steinberger Trophy Truck #7
 

JasonHutter

Well-Known Member
The new rules for the 7sx do not have the limitation in them any more for having no more than two valves per cyllinder. Therefore, yes you can run the new 3.4 motor in that class. This is one of the points that we had brought up when discussing this rule. We needed to let all stock as delivered motors run, and that is what they have done. Here is just the engine rule for 7sx:

CR23 ENGINE and ENGINE DISPLACEMENT
Engine may be one delivered in the vehicle by the manufacturer/importing distributor with a maximum of six (6) cylinders. Any other engine of the same manufacturer/importing distributor may be used providing:

(1) It retains a maximum of six (6) cylinders as originally produced by the manufacturer.
(2) It retains the same number of camshafts.
(3) It retains the same number of valves per cylinder.
(4) It does not displace more than 4300cc.
(5) Block and heads must have stock factory part numbers.

Engine must be readily available to the general public in the U.S.A. Engine must use a stock block and stock heads as delivered for highway use by the manufacturer.
Any make of carburetor/s will be allowed with a maximum of one (1) venturi per cylinder.
Stock fuel injection is allowed.
Items with no restrictions include:

(A) Strengthening and balancing
(B) Valve train and camshaft
(C) Bore and stroke
(D) Pistons
(E) Blueprinting
(F) Oil and water cooling systems. Dry sumps are allowed.
(G) Air cleaners
(H) Fuel pumps
(I) Exhaust system

Water and vapor injection systems are not allowed unless originally equipped.
Engine must be located in the stock mounting location as delivered from the manufacturer ±1". This will be measured from the center line of the front spindle to the back of the block.
Radiator must remain in stock location and have the same frontal area as the original stock radiator.


It is close to the rule that we had proposed but not exact. They don't want to do some of the things we proposed because they said it was too labor intensive to tech.

As for 7s, that class went back to the 3ltr rule the way that it had been in the past. My big question is they said that this is a trial for 6 months to see where most people will enter, then combine the classes. I would be curious to know what they would do about point standings....

Jason
 

martininsocal

Well-Known Member
Jason- now I have a question...what is the point of a trial? 6 months? How does that work...you run in 7s or 7sx for 6 months then what happens? Is it that the class with the most entrants gets to stay and all the other cars have to conform with that classes rules? Or in 6 months the rules will go to the 4.3 rule, period? Now I am totally confused. My little 4 cylinder Ranger is spinning!!!

If your gonna go, go BIG
 

JCA

Well-Known Member
Martin, this is just a guess but when the 7s guys got together and came up with a rule we wanted a compression rule. My understanding is SCORE did not want to police that part of the rule so they split the class and basically implemeted the rule (except the compression part) for 7sx. I am guessing that they want to take a look in race situations at the bigger motors times and see if they would dominate the 7s class and if the rule would work if the class was combined again with out the compression part being used. They will probably meet with everyone and recombine the class at the beginning of 2004.

J.C. Andrews
Andrews Racing
www.andrewsracing.com
 

Kritter

Krittro Campbell
Why didnt they look at 2002 times? Big motors were 1,2 and 3...jeep, chevy, chevy.

Kris
"Buy American before it's too late"
 

JCA

Well-Known Member
Because the limitations in the new rule were not in place. The head rule will make a diffrence but how much???

J.C. Andrews
Andrews Racing
www.andrewsracing.com
 

martininsocal

Well-Known Member
So let me get this straight...if the bigger motors are kickin butt(what was that radar reading of the chevy;s again jason?), then the small motor trucks will be given some type of compression advantage? So we will not only spend more to make the little 4 cyl. a screamer motor with lots of maintenance, we will also have to buy race gas @4 bucks(or more, who knows) while the big motor guys can run pump gas in a mild motor that will probably run all season with minor freshening and have teh same horsepower? That is Rocket Science Brilliant!!!!!

If your gonna go, go BIG
 

JCA

Well-Known Member
Martin through your posts in the past I have come to know you as someone that knows what he is talking about but on this issue I dont think you know enough about the rules that have been discussed and the whole situation with out sounding like someone sitting on the side lines bitching to bitch.

J.C. Andrews
Andrews Racing
www.andrewsracing.com
 

JasonHutter

Well-Known Member
720 S&S 86mph
722 Jaime Campbell 64mph
724 fire guys Racing 67mph
725 Hardin 80mph
726 Dan Fresh (in the R.E. Smith truck) 70mph
727 Steve Lawrence 61mph
728 Bruce Landfield 71mph
739 Eduardo Gonzalez 54mph
 

JCA

Well-Known Member
The "new rule is trying to allow the use of bigger motors (coming up to date with what the factory's put in the truck stock). Last year the rule allowed 4.3 and below with no stipulations. This year they are taking the aftermarket alum head out of play. Most of the racers in this class wanted a compression rule as well. That would have gotten everybody in the same ball park HP to money wise 3.0 - 4.3 and also allow the 3.0 and under guys to keep running their built motors with no compression rules (keeping them in the ball park HP wise). This is not saying that a team running a small motor can build just as much horse power as a bigger motor for the same amount of $$$'s but rather that a guy that already spent the big bucks on a high compression small motor could continue to use it and that everyone can go to a bigger motor and spend roughly the same amount of $$$'s as the next guy and get roughly the same amount of HP.

Some teams will always have more money to spend on their program and their motors than other teams but if 2 teams had the same amount of money available they could be close on the HP to each other.

Taking the heads out of play is huge. The Chevy times/speeds last year were with the alum heads. Everyone else is in the same ball park. In the times posted I think Fire Guys are the only small motor listed but I am not positive. I am not sure what Campbell was running then but he has a 4.0L now Fresh had a 4.0L Lawerence has a 3.8 or a 4.2, I think Landfield was running a 3.8 and Gonzalez was running a 4.0. I am not listed, I did not run this race but just to let you know where I stand, I run a 2.8.

I did and do not want the class to be split but I do think the class needs to update some rules!! Espically since the stone stocks can run the bigger motors. Now if the stone stocks want to step up a bit they can modify their truck for 7s instead of having to jump from stone stock to 7 open or replacing their motors. I can understand why SCORE made the decission it did. I wolud expect to see the class combined at the end of the year. At least now teams can get on with their programs and get the motors done. I know I was holding off doing anything with my motor for fear of throwing money down the drain, of which my team has very little money to waste.

Is this a perfect solution...No...but we (the racers as a group) could not come up with a perfect solution (all things considered- teams, motor builders,tech and inspection and enforcement of the rule) so why expect SCORE to do it?

If you actually own a 7s, by all means get access to the 7s board and join the people that actually make up the class in discussions.

J.C. Andrews
Andrews Racing
www.andrewsracing.com
 

martininsocal

Well-Known Member
JC- in regards to the Bitching to bitch post, very nice!!! Glad to see someone is positive about the folks who are on this board! I just sold my toyota with a 22r because there was no sense in going any farther with it. Suspension and motor would dictate a whole new truck. So now I have been collecting Ford parts with an intention of putting together a Ranger, But which one? 4.0? 2.8? 2.3? Where am I suppose to go? As far as the idea of allowing the big motors in simply because they are offered by the manufacturer, well, every manufacturer also offers every model of mini truck with a 4 cylinder, so that seems to me like a better starting point. I mean, Dodge odders a mid-size with a v-8, why not allow them with the thinking that if it is offered by the Factory, it should be allowed to run. And to follow that logic even farther, Ford doesn't offer I beams in Rangers anymore, so why not dictate only the most recent suspension? They are going that way with contingency now with the stock trucks...How is it, if it isn't a current model, then you get half the contingency?

If your gonna go, go BIG
 

JasonHutter

Well-Known Member
Well, SCORE called yesterday to fax the new rule to me and I found out that they are definitly putting it into effect for Laughlin. SCORE said that the Hardin's withdrew and BigMatt said that S&S is racing 7 open for Laughlin. Kind-of a bummer to have all this happen at the last minute. We had a field of 6 there for a few days and all of a sudden down to 4. Good luck to S&S in Laughlin, show them what it is all about!

Jason
 

Kritter

Krittro Campbell
"S&S is racing 7 open" The truck will not need to be changed much!!

Kris
"Buy American before it's too late"
 
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