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Anyone surprised by how low the entries are at the mint?

MTPyle

Well-Known Member
Dave

6100 or Baja Truck? Haha seems people are confused.

I agree Mint will be a blast. Can’t wait.

Mike
 

ekozy39

Well-Known Member
I'm sure the only one on here that can attest to the effort and time that goes into this event is Dave Cole. I've put on national level cycling events, which even then were MUCH smaller than KOH or Mint, and I can tell you if you don't have passion for the sport it doesn't work, the money is never enough to cover the real costs of putting on an event. The strain it puts on your mental and physical health, relationships, etc.. much easier ways to get "rich". Questioning Martelli's bro's passion or assuming it's driven by money is crazy.

Haven't worked with KOH, but I've been a sponsor, participant, and fan of Mint over the years. I have had long conversations about Mint with Matt and NEVER once has money or how much can he make come up. It's been about growing the sport. You want to film content? Go ahead. Unlike down south where you get sued for using any of their names, logos, etc in your content if you haven't paid a fee. Matt gives it away in hopes of attracting more people to the sport.

The full week of races, events, LV experiences, new classes, Fremont festival, ABC coverage, non-endemic sponsors, etc, IMO ( no disrespect to others) is 2nd to none. The package as a whole is best in class. All the while seamlessly integrating this event into one of the most hectic and chaotic cities in the world.

Not everything that Mint does makes sense for everyone, the Vespa races, Zero 1 celebrities cars, Hoonigan class, etc, but it all helps bring the experience and connection to the masses in a way they understand. That then helps company execs appreciate the challenge of off-road, the reach into the casuals, and why off-road is larger than the 800 racers. It helps everyone. The more we support(at least publicly) an event like Mint or KOH, the better it is for all.
 

M.Tornel Jr

Well-Known Member
Perception, in my opinion, is TOTALLY a huge problem here. They did have a significant presence on here previously, and it didn't change the dynamic. The bottom line is the narrative has always been that they are outsiders who aren't "true" off roaders and are only in it for the money. First, if that were even true, I'd argue that that would make them pretty dumb guys because what they're doing right now is hardly a financial silver spoon. As a successful media company, don't you think it would be a lot easier and more lucrative to stay in the production business? If you really understand what a headache trying to do some of the things they've been doing and plan to do in the future are, you'd likely reconsider the idea that this is all just a money grab.

I 100% believe that a fair amount of the scrutiny is just grown men "Mean Girl'ing" it up. My opinion is that if you ever have the opportunity to have a conversation with Matt and/or Josh about the connection to the sport, their vision, and what they are striving for, I think a lot of the negative perceptions would clear up pretty quickly. They don't need me to defend them, so me posting about the Mint here is really just for my own entertainment and personal opinions. But honestly I think there are a lot of people who want to see it/them fail for a variety of fairly petty reasons and that's a shame in my opinion.

I've said this in person so I don't feel bad about saying it publicly here but I think they could do a better job of countering that narrative by tooting their own horns a bit more. Not in a bragging kind of way, but just being a bit more intentional about explaining what they are trying to accomplish and what they've ALREADY managed to do. From the video production work in the early Mint revival days (2008-2012 ish) that dramatically increased the race's visibility to championing UTV's and bringing visibility and money in for those classes, to consistently striving to refine and grow both the Mint and the UTV World's, there have actually been a lot of positive impacts made that they don't highlight often enough. As I've said before, we tend to think the people we like can do little to no wrong, and we tend to think that everything the people we don't like is sinister and manipulative. It's our own biases showing really.
I gotta agree with you, at the end of the day they are putting their time money and effort into making a great race. I dont see why anyone should say they arent “true” offroaders. Who decides that anyway? I think the event and race is sick. I might be wrong but its also a risk pulling off an event like that its probably not guaranteed that they will make money
 

Slippery P

Well-Known Member
Agreed on cost. Single biggest discriminator in my opinion. Figuring out a way to get the entry fee costs down for the limited classes would be a huge win in my opinion. For what it's worth, you CAN stay in your motorhome or trailer at the Mint this year. They have an entire area that is designated as a camping area for race teams, no charge.

Regarding your point about the SNORE 250 using the same dirt...that's a fair point. But this speaks to the level of scrutiny that is disproportionately applied. BITD is running essentially a spring Rage at the River. People aren't complaining about running the same beat up 17 miles in Laughlin, or the fact that it costs 2x as much to enter the BITD race as it does RATR, to run the exact same course.

The multi day format is tricky as well. In a perfect world I'd much rather see everyone race on the same course together, but that's just not realistically feasible these days in a place like Jean, especially when you start getting up towards 250-300 entries. The upside to me is that if you're racing a limited class for Friday's race, you can show up to tech on Thursday afternoon, race Friday, and be home by Saturday afternoon. You're talking about two days of missed work. Same for the Saturday race if you're not qualifying. The 10 car folks can leave So Cal or AZ on Friday morning, tech the car that afternoon, race Saturday, and be home Sunday morning. That's 1 day of missed work. Much less time commitment in my opinion than a race like Vegas to Reno for example, which not only requires the same time commitment but also requires that long drive home.

Regardless, there are some valid arguments that I totally understand. But there is also a lot of reaching and double standards used to criticize the Mint that people don't apply anywhere else. Which to me implies that at the end of the day it's not really about the race, it's about the perception of the people involved.
Prich I know you don’t need a history lesson on the Mint of old and your points are valid, although some are easier said than done. The echo chamber around here that no one cares about championships anymore and it’s all about winning big races well that’s just false. There are a hell of a lot of teams that want to win championships as well so do sponsors, So yes people aren’t complaining about essentially running a RATR for more money in BITD because most have a goal of a championship, in which the Mint is no longer a part of.

You are right, the 10 car folks could show up Friday, tech the car, race saterday, and head home, but not that simple for most. Being that it’s the “Mint 400” there are sponsor obligations for most that require them to be there for the 4 days of shenanigans leading up to the race so not so simple as missing one day of work.

Those who are committed to a full BITD season with a goal of a championship now have 8 days to turn a car around after Laughlin, which anyone who has prepped a car after Laughlin knows the car is junk. No easy feat financially or physically to have a car prepped and tested to go to the Mint. Moving forward there are a lot of teams this year as well as last year running both a full BITD and SCORE series looking for a championship in both, this now leaves you realistically a week and a half 2 weeks is pushing it to have the car prepped and tested to go to San Felipe after the Mint. Throw an engine failure, or any repair of magnitude into the mix and now you just screwed the pooch for your BITD or SCORE series points that you have committed to your sponsors.

It doesn’t have anything to do with bashing the Martelli’s, I think for a lot of teams especially those who remember the Mint of old, its kind of lost some of Its prestige over the years running around the solar farm race course and just doesn’t make much sense in their current race program with it not holding no points. BG hit the nail on the head explaining my REAL Mint 400 reference the pay out back then was huge and trickled way down into multiple classes and finish positions.

Then again that’s just my opinion, based on customer conversation, and my opinion means nothing. I think there are a lot of teams waiting to see who will show up on the entry list and it will fill up pretty good at the last minute. Also I think there are quite a few teams who just don’t care to go to the Mint.
 
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J Prich

Well-Known Member
Prich I know you don’t need a history lesson on the Mint of old and your points are valid, although some are easier said than done. The echo chamber around here that no one cares about championships anymore and it’s all about winning big races well that’s just false. There are a hell of a lot of teams that want to win championships as well so do sponsors, So yes people aren’t complaining about essentially running a RATR for more money in BITD because most have a goal of a championship, in which the Mint is no longer a part of.

You are right, the 10 car folks could show up Friday, tech the car, race saterday, and head home, but not that simple for most. Being that it’s the “Mint 400” there are sponsor obligations for most that require them to be there for the 4 days of shenanigans leading up to the race so not so simple as missing one day of work.

Those who are committed to a full BITD season with a goal of a championship now have 8 days to turn a car around after Laughlin, which anyone who has prepped a car after Laughlin knows the car is junk. No easy feat financially or physically to have a car prepped and tested to go to the Mint. Moving forward there are a lot of teams this year as well as last year running both a full BITD and SCORE series looking for a championship in both, this now leaves you realistically a week and a half 2 weeks is pushing it to have the car prepped and tested to go to San Felipe after the Mint. Throw an engine failure, or any repair of magnitude into the mix and now you just screwed the pooch for your BITD or SCORE series points that you have committed to your sponsors.

It doesn’t have anything to do with bashing the Martelli’s, I think for a lot of teams especially those who remember the Mint of old, its kind of lost some of Its prestige over the years running around the solar farm race course and just doesn’t make much sense in their current race program with it not holding no points. BG hit the nail on the head explaining my REAL Mint 400 reference the pay out back then was huge and trickled way down into multiple classes and finish positions.

Then again that’s just my opinion, based on customer conversation, and my opinion means nothing. I think there are a lot of teams waiting to see who will show up on the entry list and it will fill up pretty good at the last minute. Also I think there are quite a few teams who just don’t care to go to the Mint.
I actually agree with a lot of what you said. I don't think it's reasonable to say that people don't care about championships...of course they do. Like I said, the internet paints in broad strokes, as if all people must be motivated by one thing, or the other. The reality is there are those who don't care about championships, and many who do. Regardless, my point about comparing Rage to BITD was not about the championships...because SNORE has a championship too. My point was if the argument against the Mint is that it doesn't make sense to race the same course for more money, then that same argument should apply at Laughlin. But mostly...it doesn't. While many criticize the Mint for "price gouging", no one is suggesting BITD is gouging for charging double to race the exact same set up as RATR. THAT was my point there.

I personally question the validity of the idea that "lots" of limited class guys have sponsor obligations that require them to be at the Mint any longer than any other race. I agree that some certainly have that issue, but I personally think it would be a stretch to suggest that even 1/4th of the limited class racers have the kind of sponsors that "require" them to show up Wednesday to do the parade. That's literally the only "extra" stuff. I get that it feels like a lot compared to a normal race, but 90% of the "extra" is fan driven and doesn't impact that vast majority of racers who just show up and race. Just my personal perspective there.

Agreed 100% about Laughlin, but to be clear, this isn't a Mint issue. Although many people are using it as extra ammo to justify what they already don't like. The Mint didn't schedule Laughlin 10 days prior to the Mint. BITD did. I have seen many complaints from racers about having a short turn around for the Mint now. Virtually all of them are directed at the Mint, but few if any have expressed any kind of displeasure with BITD for dropping a race right between two other org's races. This is what I mean about double standards...we are more critical of some groups than others as a community in my view.

Finally, the point that I questioned was the idea that this isn't the "real" Mint. We have this same conversation on RDC every year, for like 8 years. I get that it's not the same as it was in 1985. Or 1975. But running the race in Jean doesn't make it any less "real" to me, unless you consider the other years the old Mint ran that area fake too. And given that the first few Mints weren't the North Vegas course at all, what makes that course any more "real" than the others? Aside from popularity, which I totally get because that course was rad. Bottom line is my perspective is that while it's not 1985, these guys have made every effort possible to remake what the old Mint looked like. Is it exactly the same? No. Virtually nothing in 2020 is exactly the same as it wast 30+ years ago. When people say it's not the "real" Mint, they mostly aren't saying it out of a sense of nostalgia for days gone by. They are saying it to attack and discredit what these guys have done to try their best to recreate what it was then. The "old" anything is mostly never coming back. My personal view is that I'd rather have something that attempts to recreate what it was given the constraints we have now versus not have it at all. And that is my equally irrelevant personal point of view. We all see things differently based on our perspectives.
 

vegasloki

Well-Known Member
Yep, 316 entries for the Mint. Stick a fork in it, it’s done. The 209 posted for Laughlin is way more than the Mint... :rolleyes:
 

J Prich

Well-Known Member
Most entrys are golf carts


I'm afraid it's time for the obese lady to perform

Or should I say it in politically correct terms "the gender neutral weight challenged person to perform" for you snowflakes?
RIP BITD too then, ammiright?
 

DG_BTI

Well-Known Member
Most entrys are golf carts


I'm afraid it's time for the obese lady to perform

Or should I say it in politically correct terms "the gender neutral weight challenged person to perform" for you snowflakes?
ya, BITD doesn't have any golf carts at all, your funny
 

misterktm

Well-Known Member
Yep, 316 entries for the Mint. Stick a fork in it, it’s done. The 209 posted for Laughlin is way more than the Mint... :rolleyes:
I'm not on either side....I like both Mad Media and BITD...but to represent the entry count more accurately... I count 185 car/truck/UTV entries out of the 316. The others are bikes and youth - which are not racing Laughlin.
 

JEFFRPM

Non Sugar Coated
That's a good question concerning BITD possibly dying off HELL I HOPE NOT! but it does bring up a good question can they compete with KOH & SCORE? Apparently the mint could die a slow death possibly getting perchased by BITD at a later date? That is contingent on how far it gets burned to the ground.
 

BajaFand

Well-Known Member
Guys KOH is only one event per year and the only other event it really effects is Parker and that’s only for one class. I think BITD not having The Mint anymore hurts The Mint but it also hurts BITD in some ways as well. I believe they may lose some year long points entries for that race being a big incentive to run the whole series. Some extra entries should show up for V2R as usual. Entries all across the board seem to be down so far this year, the SF250 entry list looks pretty weak as well.

You guys seem to forget or weren’t around when BITD didn’t have a ton of entries, TT and all the buggy classes got maybe 4-5 cars per event and there were no golf carts. Their bread and butter was bikes, quads, and production truck classes with Ford and Goodyear series sponsor money. It wasn’t until they got Parker in 03 when they got a bump in entries but the whole series didn’t get huge until all the bad stuff went down in Mexico in 07 and Parker in 08 saw the first time they had 100+ unlimited vehicles starting the race and most of them running the series.

I think both BITD and The Mint will be fine for the foreseeable future.
 

Dave Cole 4454

Well-Known Member
Man, you guys are off the rails.


It is possible for more than one event to be successful.

BITD will be fine...Mint will continue to push the envelope.

We are all in a good place....enjoy it and go fast!
 

y2kbaja

Well-Known Member
Totally agree. Buy a car (I have one for sale) and go race!
 
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