Are rules written to be negotiated?

sand shark

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All the HP levels you mention require turbo upgrades so what is your point? The fasted dune Can-Am Maverick X3s are pushing 400-600HP. Huge turbos.
You can get up to 250hp on the stock turbo and the tuners might be able to get more than that. I have not looked in a while. Yes you would need a bigger turbo to get to the 300hp range. At the current hp levels the racers are running in the desert they are plenty fast, don't overpower the car and they survive a desert race.
 

sand shark

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Why wouldn’t they race with 300 or more hp if they could do so reliably?
The key is reliability and I don't think they will have it at 300hp for a desert race. New motor, new design and unproven other on an engine stand. In Baja Kristin Matlock is beating the turbo cars in her non-turbo Polaris. She is at least 100hp less than the turbo cars.

Let's see how RG and company do in Parker in January and in Baja.
 

class5cole

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Ask Wilkey. He's been extremely vocal on social media today. Interested to see what happens with him and SNORE
 

NIKAL

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jajaja........ Yes you can. We run 100% stock motors, and a stock turbo / tune in my car. Desert racing is not all bout HP, it's about the best working car.
Wayne, Being that the Matlock team also runs in the N/A class and the engine rules are much more open vs the Turbo class. Can you share what you guys can do to those motors. Are you still running stock internals or do you open them up and upgrade some parts?

Speaking with another team last year they had mentioned it was cheaper to run in the turbo class as the motors are 100% stock besides tunes, header etc vs. the N/A class where you can open up and get in the engines.
 

tapeworm

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Wilkey raced Primm in a class 11, not the UTV nationals. Unrelated issues.
The title of the thread is called “are rules written to be negotiated” so where in the title does it say to exclude class 11 from the thread? Not every thread revolves around UTV’s.

FYI, they started a thread strictly about them. You should check it out.
 

jon coleman

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The title of the thread is called “are rules written to be negotiated” so where in the title does it say to exclude class 11 from the thread? Not every thread revolves around UTV’s.

FYI, they started a thread strictly about them. You should check it out.
rules , or rule$ ,????
 

jon coleman

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jajaja........ Yes you can. We run 100% stock motors, and a stock turbo / tune in my car. Desert racing is not all bout HP, it's about the best working car.
after each win, stock motor goes up in ' value', sell it, buy another stock engine, pocket diff., go win next race,,, repeat...
 

43mod

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Dan Is it ok to not have a turbo ? Lets look at the Vw classes. 11,5-1600,5u,12 and some 10 cars i assume back in the day. There are a s ton of non turbo utvs sold.
 

dan200

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Dan Is it ok to not have a turbo ? Lets look at the Vw classes. 11,5-1600,5u,12 and some 10 cars i assume back in the day. There are a s ton of non turbo utvs sold.
Kristen Matlock just won the 500 in an NA car, from the back.

If we took all the UTVs out racing today there would be one huge class. Dunno if that's the best thing or not.

ME- Id like to see the slower drivers (not the slower cars) run in the smaller series and the faster dudes run in the bigger ones.
 

MTPyle

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To answer the OP question. Absolutely rules are made to negotiate. Generally the group or person with the most money gets the most say in those negotiations.

Dan,

I agree. No reason a brand new team with zero experience can line up and race against the pros. The difference between the top 10 and the bottom 10 in UTV is huge. Really the same in most larger groups. Even with 6100 there is a large difference between rookie and the top 5. When we first started we were in the way of the fast guys, I felt bad for them to have to race against us while racing against the actual top guys. we were simply in the way and caused more risk than the fast guys.

But the reality is our sport is made up of hobbyist. We are not revenue racing so we will never have many pro teams. There are like 2% of the teams that are professional and make a living out of it. And all of those started as hobbyist. The rest do it for fun with their spare money and spare time. :)

Not sure what this thread became about UTV's. There must be something I missed.


UTV's are just buggies with 4x4 and rubber bands as drivetrain.

Mike
 

ht racing

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I race desert as a driver owner these days. I did over twenty years working in the pro ranks. Class 8 and Trophy Truck in the 90s as well as Soda short course. I did NASCAR trucks the first two seasons they were formed. Moved on to Indycar, then back to Offroad and back to NASCAR. Finally doing a four year stint in road racing with some Daytona prototype and lemans teams.
In all those years and series when our cars were the slightest jot or tittle off the rule we would get penalized or DQed. I recall winning in our class at Sebring and the officials checking fuel capacity four times because another team suggested we were over capacity.
We passed scrutineering and were the official winner. I recall a meeting in 1994 at the track at a score race. Jon Nelson and Cal Wells pleading both sides of an argument to score about the headlight grille on a trophy truck. Raglands truck had the lower half cut off for ground clearance and it was at issue. The truck started the race with a full grille.
rules were rules. I consider myself a fair person. I follow the rules. When I have bent or stretched the rules it was quietly and with trepidation of getting caught. It seems nowadays if you bring enough hype or money to the show you’ll get case by case considerations.
Polaris and Can-Am have brought a lot of investment into the sport. I’m pretty sure we will see Honda and Kawasaki step up to production turbo cars soon. Factory production turbo. My concern is with the newcomer. 1000 units produced is the wording in utv world championships rule book. But with 0 produced the newcomer is entered in production turbo. Same rule book says driver of record must be 14. ( but case by case considerations can be made). If you bring enough hype to the series you can be 12. I’m not a Madmedia event fan. I feel it’s more about money than racing for them. I just don’t want to see BITD or the new Legacy series fall for the hype. When 1000 are produced the car will be tough to beat. I don’t think The Honda with a Jackson turbo kit should be allowed in SCORE. It’s not a production vehicle. For those who will surely post negativity about UTV’s, just consider it happening in your class. Because if allowed eventually it will. Money and hype can’t be a means to circumvent rules, Offroad will lose if it does. F1 and NASCAR are proof of what money and hype does to the rules and integrity.
I hope we can keep it out of the desert.
Rant over. Shred away!
the new car did not even have shocks on it and never raced. max has been running bitd for the last 3 years not sure what is the problem here......
 
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