Are the PRO series good for the sport?

Rory

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I've been following a couple message boards lately and wanted to get insite from everyone INVOLVED in off road racing and see what they think. My question: Is series' like PRO DIRT, PRO TRUCK, PRO 1600 etc good for the sport when they are racing 4-5 different series? Below is an example and what I think.

2002 Parker 400- lots of 1600's and unlimiteds. Great for Whiplash but only for there first event. They must have had 200 cars but what was there car count like the rest of the year? Same with SNORE, SCORE and BITD.

Do I think PRO series organizations are good? YES, but, I do think it is going the wrong way and bad for the sport. If every series picks a different series to race for each race, all Promoters will be hurting. Now I don't know about you but I love going to the races and seeing LOTS of race cars tearing it up, but at this rate, we are all stuck watching 80-120 cars TOTAL instead of 300-400 cars at EVERY race. If the promoters don't make money, there is no reason for them to be out there.

I guess having 20 different race promoters doesn't help either. If desert racing is going to servive and get exposure again like it did, we need to have ONE serious series everyone wants to race. Does that mean that every other series drops off the face of the earth? NOPE. just like NASCAR or CART, there are plenty of series that are stepping stones to the big series.....Carting, Toyota Atlantic, BUSCH, Winston west etc.

300-400 cars at the Vegas to Reno, Baja 1000, SNORE 250 or even Rocky Point would stur up some excitement...don't you think?

I say, get ALL parties together and work witht the promoters you think can get the job done. THEN, pick the promoter that would best represent Off Road racing and race that series. There would still be plenty of people that don't want to run the BIG SERIES and thats what the other series would be for. I'm looking at the big picture. I'm not trying to step on any toes, just giving my honest opinon.

Sorry about the "Novel" but I think this sport has a chance to get bigger than it ever has before.

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martininsocal

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Rory- on some points you are right. There are too many promoters right now. I think there needs to be some control, but I think the PRO groups are only the first step in how that control will come about. When the PRO groups finally have the will and support, they will be able to go to promoters and say what they want and get it. Right now, they are only looking at the immediate gains of a bigger purse for them, not what the long term picture could look like.

Why do the PRO groups even need a promoter? PRODIRT could just all meet a a predetermined place and "have fun" for a day. We all know gambinig and getting are illegal so that CAN'T take place as side bets, etc... Too many races and a loss of the glamour associated with the big ones. I have not been the biggest supporter of SCORE in this point, but I think with the right ideas, SCORE could become the licensing group with some controls on how other promoters run the year.

I think we need a few smaller series for folks to get their feet wet(no more than 3-4 regional desert races a year per promoter) and about 4-5 large premier races from the parent organization. SCORE used to work something like this with VORRA. Racers could run their local series and still run some of the SCORE races without time being too much of an issue. VORRA, MDR or MORE, SNORE, FUD, and maybe CODE could be the regional series for the locals and SCORE could run the BIG SHOW.

It is funny, because 300-400 cars used to be normal and 65-80 1600 cars were regular at SCORE and HDRA in the '80's. The only difference is the number of races available now, costs for most classes are still pretty level with inflation calculated in.

Martin

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Steve_Sourapas

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Rory,I think think the Pro organizations are good for the sport for the following reasons1) it makes the promoters do what they should be doing in the first place,promote the event and make it so racers want to race their event.If the promoter is weak or puts on lame events he should look for something else to do.The pro racers are just following their favorite events based on many factors such as location,race course design,costs,promoter,purse,etc.Whats wrong with making the promoter do his job,no one should get a free ride just because it's this series or that series.2)What wrong with a bunch of guys with similiar race cars putting up their OWN money and racing for it.I'm not saying I know what a promoters costs or profit margins are but the entry fee's and purse's are totally out of balance that's why these groups are growing and many racers aren't loyal to any one series.3)as far as the leadership of the Pro organizations I sure even they would agree a much better job could be done in packaging and selling of their programs but I don't believe any one person is willing to put in the time and up front money it would take to reach that goal.Just a few thoughts but promoting races is a business and should be conducted as such with only the strong staying alive.Racers,sponsors,and specators are their customers and should be treated for what they are.One possible idea for a promoter would be to find a way to make T.V. coverage possible,not only would that promote the sport but it would also make it much more attractive for sponsors not only for the promoter but for racers also.Forget about making a short term profit on the T.V. rights look at the big picture.

BEERMAN
 

havahockey

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I think it would be great to see some sort of race that is sponsored by multiple bodies (ie. Score, Bitd, snore, etc) and have one large race a year. You'll get a great turn out and fans who tend to go to one series will come out. Will that ever happen? Has it happened?

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rdc

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ONE SENTENCE FOR IT ALL TO MANY EGO'S ON PROMOTERS ENDS
 

bubnel

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just an idea. what if all the groups: pro-dirt, pro10, pro-1600, pro-truck, f-9, class8 coalition, and any other classes that are out there all got together and made a "pro-drivers" association. Then they would have enough clout to really get what they wanted from promoters. it would kill off the promoters that are not willing to provide good races, purses, ect. For the most part the only reason a lot of peolpe race is cuz the promoters provide races that are local and less money for entry fees... for ex. whiplash get very few out of az racers at anyother race besides parker. As far as that goes SCORE takes themself out of the picture by running 3 races in mexcio, which is too risky and expensive for alot of race teams. I think all the racers were organized they could pick and choose races then it would be a natural process the weak would die out, but the problem is getting organized and being united, and also gettting someone to do it.
 

mgobaja

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In response to the request for a " PRo-Drivers" I believe Summit tried doing that back in 1998 and 1999, but it turned into trying to heard cats. Everybody had their own agenda and very few wanted to unite. It is the drivers sport. They pay the bills . When is the last time a promoter payed to have your car prepped and footed the hotel and fuel bills for going to the race ? It ultimatly is the Drivers choice.
 

SANDlessNSeattle

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I agree with Steve and Martin, strenght in numbers. If the promotor wants the numbers then he or she should put up or shut up!!! With the cost of racing what it is there needs to be just a little compensation... Now I'm not saying your gonna get rich but it sure would be nice that when your out beating the crud out of your $125,000 racecar that you knew there was a little pot of cash at the finish line.....Insted of someone handing you a check out of the back of a box van for half of you entry fee. ......''Just My 2 cents worth" 2 cents.... that means I must have come in third...

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Clifford

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I'm glad to have found this post this morning. I've been thinking along the same lines, Pro-Dirt, Pro-10, and Pro-1600 are all promoters, just like MDR, MORE, SNORE, among others. If memory serves me, there was a long standing issue just before the explosion of the Pro groups of too many promoters trying to get their hand in the pot and having small car counts.

What was the "fix" to resolve the concerns of few racers and too many promoters, the creation of a few more promoters. I agree that the Pro groups are good for the sport but they are hindering the advancement that they so desire. Until a Pro series decides to race a promoters entire series, it's still going to be the same. A Pro group needs to step up and say in 2003 or 2004 we will be doing the entire Snore, Score, More, etc. series. Imagine the payback for doing an entire series, Rob Mac won 40g's for 3 Pro-1600 races in 2002, that could easily double if they commit to an entire series.
 

martininsocal

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Clifford- I don't look at the PRO groups as promoters, I see them as the beginning of a fledgling union. If things go the way they should, eventually, they will unite into a drivers union with class reps, a governing board, democratic race choices(as they do now, but with the whole group attending) and the true outcome of 200+ car counts. The biggest race as far as numbers (both pay out and cars) was always the independent Mint 400 (R.I.P.) No Series promoter ran that race in its heyday, just a confirmed offroad racer who had a great connection to the Hotel industry in Vegas. That race drew racers from all over(like the 1000) yet, it was a loop race(big loops) started and finished in the same place(not the glamour of Ensenada to La Paz) and it didn't cater to any manufacturer(it later became the "Nissan 400" but was a shell of its former self). Parker was proof positive that big races are still possible, but what did it do? made the Premier even of the weekend(Laughlin) pale in comparison to its previous years. Why? Laughlin is being run the wrong way. SCORE has the potential to replace its old Riverside races with that venue, but it is trying to make a 13 mile loop a "desert" race and the desert racers aren't buying it. When it is the only race on the date, it does fine because it is the first race of the SCORE series, but when it has competition from a true desert "Classic" like Parker, it becomes the second fiddle for most. I could go on, but that is plenty to digest.

Martin

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azrace

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IMHO, I think there is a promoter trying to make desert racing bigger and better. Look at BITD and the Parker 425, they now have TV coverage for next year and they are encouraging spectators also. This is what desert racing has been lacking for a long time......my 2
 

DMSRACE

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BITD is really trying hard to make it bigger and better. His tv coverage is going to be great and his rates for it are really affordable. As far as the pro groups, thay have alot of pull with the promoters. This is because they can come and say we are going to bring this many cars, what are you going to do for us? Therefore if we could get a drivers group together, we would have major pull. And as for Casey getting the Parker race, I as a racer am looking forward to it. It will not be utter chaos like when whiplash had it last year. Casey puts on a first class show every race.


Kevin

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Steve_Sourapas

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I will share a story with you regarding BITD.In my 20 years of racing I have never ever been called by a promoter to try to get me to race their event till a couple weeks ago.Casey(BITD) called me and asked me if I would consider racing the Parker 425 and could he help me in anyway to make easy for me to attend.He called back with phone numbers of possible hotels for me as well as possible sponsor opportunities.Now that's a man who's trying and I will do my best to make his race because of his efforts plus the Parker course is one of my favorites,it's fast.

BEERMAN
 

ACID_RAIN28

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isn't the parker race just a week or so behind laughlin? I have heard that it is going to be a huge race, but if everyone goes to laughlin how will they be able to get the cars ready in time and I belive kyle now wants to go to that race because there is no way they can get it back togather if they race laughlin, but he is not sure.

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Vtr_Racing

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I think for one, you have to ask the question on why the Pro groups were created in the first place? Steve answers that question. It would be nice to have one "spokesperson" for all the groups. Than have him or her bring to the table, what the "groups" would like. The promoters and drivers need each other. The big contention is money as it always is. The Pro groups look like they are going in the right direction. There needs to be a little more unity with the Pro Groups and I think that will come with time. Once you get one body representing the drivers it will be much easier to tell the promoters whats best for the contingent. I think the manufacturers will see this as well. Once you get them back in the picture, there will be more purse money from them. The Manufacturers want to see some kinda return on their investment if you will and if they can see that with the Pro groups, they will get more involved. I hope that happens.

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vman

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the parker race will be missing the bigest class and the one that has the best racing pro-1600

racing
 

DMSRACE

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And why are the pro-1600's not going???

Racer

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frankh

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I don't know what race you where at but I had three cars at the last Parker race and thought it was one of the best races I have been too.

As far as BITD taking over, he has to call everyone. If this race is anything less then last year ( as far as car count) then it will be a failure for him and his friend in the Chamber of Commerce that got him the race.

Maybe he should lower the entry to what it was last year for everyone. And with 425 km race, is he tiring to fool you into thinking that you are paying more for a longer race?
 

Jimmy8

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First of all, your buddy Jay from Whiplash trademarked the name Parker 400, so unless BITD wanted to get in legal trouble, the name had to be changed for the race. Second of all, the race last year was not a true 400 miles, in fact it was a lot less. The course this year will actually be a bit farther than 425, and has a lot of new course that has not been run since SCORE days. As far as lowering entry fees for everyone, I don't see anyone else really complaining about the higher entry fees except for a small group of people who consequently got their entry fees lowered. As far as Parker and Laughlin being too close to gether, I do not see it that way. Look at the calendar, and you will see 3 weeks. I am from Parker, and I will be running both the Laughlin race and then the Parker race 3 weeks later, and I know I am not the only one who will be doing both. 3 weeks is a decent amount of time to get a good prep, unless you just total the car at Laughlin. I have no bias tword SCORE, BITD, or any other organization, but this will be a very good race with a very good turnout. Change always makes people upset, mainly because they do not know why or for what reason the change happened. I know last year that I was a big advocate for getting people to attend the Parker race, but there are a lot of things behind the scenes that happened last year, that many of you do not know about. I want to clear up the issue of Casey and the Parker 425 as well. Parker came to Casey to put the race on, he did not come to us. He made one thing clear, and that was that he did not want to step on anyones toes. Whether your first race of the year is Laughlin or Parker, both will be fine events, and I will be running both in support of both Sal and Casey. Both are great people, and both have successful race organizations. What the whole thing boils down to is business, and Parker had to do what was best for Parker, and consequently I think what was best for Parker is also best for the racers.

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frankh

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Why do you say my buddy at whiplash. I raced one race with him. I don't even know him and I don't think I have even talked to him. Had lots of fun at his race. just hate to see the little guy get screwed. So if there is a big reason why Parker went to BITD, then tell us. If it was just a friend helping a friend then tell us. Tell us the truth. How is it that BITD ended up with it. If the people of Parker wanted a better promoter why not check out all of the promoters. And as far as what is best for Parker? Tell us the truth about that too. My parents live in Quartzite and spend allot of time in the town of Parker and it's not all good news like you say it is.
 
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