Are UTV’s faster than 10 cars

Motofaid

New Member
Are you UTVs faster than 10 cars and potentially faster than 1 cars it seems to be the case. My argument is that “ it doesn’t matter what kind of driver is behind the wheel” Because the UTV manages the desert better than a 10 car.

Myself having raced amateur motocross and professional Supercross and desert racing I know what it takes to finish “a” desert race and since I’ve raced for over 25 years I’ve never graduated to a four wheel vehicle.

I’ve noticed that UTV classes are charging past the following classes
Class 16
Class 7
Class 8
Class 5 unlimited
Class 10 and
Class 1
 

J Prich

Well-Known Member
If this is your first official post, kudos to you. This is a solid effort.
 

calstyl2

Well-Known Member
You are wrong
The fastest UTV might be faster than a back marker 10 car, but well prep'ed and well driven 10 car will smoke a UTV, anyday unless their is some trail blockage the UTV can get around.
 

swiftracing5

Well-Known Member
It is hard to find the right word, we always jump to "faster". It depends what the terrain is, is this Baja or Primm?

But in all honesty, I have no problem saying they are faster than our 5 car, the front runners passed me by mile 50 at the 500 and 1000. Why shouldn't they though, longer wheelbase, same size tires, comparable power to weight, more drive wheels, better visibility, NOT a 60 year old front end design lol
 

MTPyle

Well-Known Member
Not sure about the numbers for most of those classes but you cant put Class 1 in there. They race on a different course with the big trucks. In the second race in parker by the 2nd lap the course was a complete mess. You cant compare times from early races to the later race, it's not the same course.

Lots of other variables to consider. Its my opinion that 10 cars push really hard to win. In other words they are either fast or crash so that skews the numbers. If you look at the top 3 of 10 cars and top 3 of UTV who is faster?

Mike
 

Motofaid

New Member
So my objective is not to insult anyone or the class that they race. Just to get a better understanding of the “Game of averages “ which is off-road racing and my background of motorcross racing the game of averages wins a series or a championship.?
 

MTPyle

Well-Known Member
What race can you compare UTV's to 10 apples to apples? Same course same day?

Baja is tough as 4x4 really is a game changer in the silt. So a big silt race a UTV will do well compared to a 10 car but take the silt out and the UTV is way slower.

Mike
 

pdailey

Racer
I found this to be interesting on the Mint 400 website. Looks like the start order for the Sunday morning race. If I'm a UTV, do I really want Ultra 4's and 7200's breathing down my neck?

Sunday Morning Classes: 1000, UTV Pro Turbo, UTV Naturally Aspirated, 4400 Ultra 4, 7200, 8100 Sportsman and 5500. *All Start times are approximate and subject to change.*
 

MTPyle

Well-Known Member
Apparently the golf carts think they are faster than all those classes anyway. Hehe. :)

Mike
 

T.martin

Well-Known Member
Interesting question. I started doing some average speed calculations to see where I might want to go after Jeepspeed.

Here are the numbers for Pahrump (top 3 if 3 finished)
TT 63.55
1500 60.97
6100 57.56
1000 57.39
900 53.41
7200 49.87
2900 48.22
1900 46.74
6000 44.91
1700 44.88
 

MTPyle

Well-Known Member
Thats interesting, 900 is faster than I would have thought.

Crazy how close 6100 and 10's are. last weekend we saw what happens when you put a top class 10 guy into a 6100, Brock killed it.

Also surprised that 6000 and 1700 are so close. I think that shows how much 4x4 helps.

Mike
 

J Prich

Well-Known Member
Interesting question. I started doing some average speed calculations to see where I might want to go after Jeepspeed.

Here are the numbers for Pahrump (top 3 if 3 finished)
TT 63.55
1500 60.97
6100 57.56
1000 57.39
900 53.41
7200 49.87
2900 48.22
1900 46.74
6000 44.91
1700 44.88
The thing about data and stats is....

Even a single race numbers like this might not mean as much as a person thinks it might. It's all about how you interpret it. You would still need to drill down farther to determine what impacted that average...how many of those top 3 in class had clean days versus issues? Etc. You can break it down 1000 different ways. The issue is never about whether or not the fastest couple of guys in one class are faster than the back, middle, or even the front of another class. The issue is what the overall aggregate of that class is.

To @pdailey 's point about the Mint, the fastest UTV's may DGAF about Ultra 4s starting behind them because they will be fast enough and have enough of a start gap to not get caught. And for the fast guys the issue is the inconvenience of starting behind slower vehicles they have to pass, which is admittedly not fun. But the problem is when you advocate that a WHOLE class start in front of another class because the fastest guys are...fast...that means even the medium fast and slow guys also start in front of the Ultra 4s. So for those guys who WILL get caught, it starts being a lot less fun when you've got a mirror full of 40" tires and a massive bumper at just about cranium level.

I mean just looking at those numbers above...without doing a deep statistical analysis I'm confident in saying that without question the top half 1/3rd to half of the Trophy Lite trucks finish consistently faster than the fastest 1700 Jeepspeed. By all means call B.S. if I'm wrong but I've been at and in enough races to know that the fastest 1700 guys aren't running with the lead or probably even middle Trophy Lites. But according to those numbers above based on Parhump...one would conclude that a 1700 Jeepspeed is as fast as a Trophy Lite.
 

offroadracer516

Well-Known Member
They still get beat in SNORE at bap and rage by the 1600 cars racing on a smoother course. Nothing for us at Caliente. Having 4wd in baja is a massive advantage. Outside of that they are not faster. Close but not faster. BITD and SCORE are not the places to measure speed in my opinion. Not enough cars at BITD and to many silt beds that cars spend hours in. Even though 1600 did take it at the 2017 baja 1000. When its head to head 1600 is still coming out on top.
 
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SummerTime

Active Member
As an entire class of cars, i think not. Driver to driver at each race we've seen both outcomes. Though the 10's usually come out on top, the two that come to my mind (and i'm sure there are others) are last years 1k where Wayne Matlock beat more than just the entire 10 class, and also Rosarito 2016 where the top FI UTV beat out the top 10 cars on time (which happened to be us). Ironically we have been having this same debate between class 10 and spec TT for the last few years. In the tight stuff its close with a slight advantage for the UTV's in my opinion, in the open desert the 10 brings the stability, suspension travel, weight, width and beef with it.
 

bajaxp

Baja Bobsled Team
They still get beat in SNORE at bap and rage by the 1600 cars racing on a smoother course. Nothing for us at Caliente at all. Having 4wd in baja is a massive advantage. Outside of that they are not faster at all. BITD and SCORE are not the places to measure speed in my opinion. Not enough cars at BITD and to many silt beds that cars spend hours in. When its head to head 1600 is still coming out on top over and over and over again.
SNORE stats vis 'a vis UTVs are completely irrelevant...IMO.
 

T.martin

Well-Known Member
Pahrump was just the first race I happened to do averages for. I plan on running averages for several more. At Pahrump, the winning Trophy Lite was 6066 with a time of 5:19:11. The winning Jeepspeed was 1793 with a time of 5:20:29. Not sure what kind of day each driver had, but the times are close.

Times do vary by course and race format, 2 races vs 1, and lap vs point to point.
 

Zambo

Well-Known Member
Different horses for different courses. I've been in a truck in the 1000 and blown by UTVs (we were in sportsman), only to get to tight technical sections and have those same UTVs come blowing back past me.

The 4 wheel drive is good not just for blowing through silt and sand washes but simply hauling ass from corner to corner in tight sections. The power to weight combined with traction in these things is great. Even a stock motor in a modern UTV will pin your head back. 0-60 in less than 5 seconds. The limiting factor there is top speed. Hard to push one more that 90mph without a lot of work to the car.

The other place they shine is when the trail is tight. I go so much faster down some of these long goat trails like you see in the longer SCORE races because I can move the car side to side and not have to hit every obstacle between the hillside and the cliff. IMO guys that make their UTVs too wide trying to gain every last micron of travel are in fact giving up a big advantage of the UTV.

Clearly however, if a course doesn't have a lot of silt and goat trails, the 10 car is still going to be faster. I think at the last B1000 though they had a lot of that stuff and the UTVs outperformed everything except for TT, TTspec and Class1.
 

offroadracer516

Well-Known Member
Its laughable to ever think a UTV is faster then a 10 car. Look at some lap times. Real racing speed. Not passing a class because they are stuck and you have 4wd. Come on people... The 10's are 2 mins or more faster in a single lap at rage.
 
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