Ashleys trophy truck

Volcom1095

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i just remembered that when i was at the laughlin race i remember looking in the trophy truck and noticed a little joystick to the right of the driver was that the way that he shifts his truck? i thought i saw or heard somthing about it being electronicly shifted but dont know.
 

Dave_G

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Dave's truck can be shifted electronically with the joy stick and it also has a mechanical back up if the electronics fail. The Herbst TT is also now electronic shift but it's a manual sequential 6 speed not an automatic like Dave's.

Dave

"I know it all, but I can't remember most of it..."
 

Jimmy8

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In Dan and Dave's truck, they have a gate shifter like just like every other automatic trophy truck out there. It sits down really low on the right hand side of the driver and is difficult to see. They put the gate shifter into the drive position, then leave it, and all the other shifting is done through that little joystick on the dash, 1st - 6th gear.

"On A Mission"
 

Klaus

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What kind of transmission is it ? Is it a 4 speed ford automatic ?
Are the 6 speeds the 4 gears plus a combination of locked converter ?

I understand that the GM 4l80 is fully computer controlled and the actual linkake going into the trans is only for the parking lock. Can someone confirm that ?

If that is true (4l80). Does the ford 4speeds work the same ? In other words only solenoids in the body control the shifts.
 

Dave_G

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Re: Are the 6 speeds the 4 gears plus a combination of locked converter ?

Klaus,
Yes. The trans has been modified to lock the converter between gears so in effect you get the six speed.

Dave

"I know it all, but I can't remember most of it..."
 

jcorsico

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Can somebody explain the deal with the Herbst transmissions? What are they running now? A manual six speed, but electronically shifted? Do you mean something like what is run in a Forumula 1 car which is pretty much just a manual transmission where the computer modulates the clutch and shifts? Or is it just a six speed automatic, but electronically controlled? No more torque converter and three Fluidyne trans coolers?

Where did they get it?

Thanks!
Jon
 

Dave_G

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Re: Can somebody explain the deal with the Herbst transmissions?

The trans is a sequential shift six speed. It shifts somewhat like a motorcycle transmission with shifting drums. The drums have grooves machined in them that actuate the shift forks. When the drum rotates the forks move (shift) the dog gears. The drum rotation is powered by air and controlled by computer software. The "clutch" is not used while shifting gears. Engine RPM and power settings are overidden by the software to find the optimum neutral pressure to make the shift. That happens in less than .3 seconds. The hammering loads this trans causes on the rest of the drive train is brutal so there is a feature designed into it to absorbe the loads through a torque shaft.

Re: No more torque converter and three Fluidyne trans coolers?

yep.


Re:Where did they get it?

From several places..... ;-)


"I know it all, but I can't remember most of it..."<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by Dave_G on 02/28/02 03:51 PM (server time).</FONT></P>
 

Ryno

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Klaus-

the 4L80E is the computer controlled turbo 400 w/ OD. No, the linkage still shifts the gears. However, the computer does operate the torque converter clutch for lockup, and also controls the shift points to an extent. The shifts are still dependent upon the fluid, and you can change them through the valve body. The computer will also sense a knock from the motor, and immediately shift up to keep the motor from pinging. I am not up to date on the latest Allison trannies GM now puts in their 3/4 ton and 1 ton trucks. Allison is legendary for their heavy truck trannys, I would love one behind the new diesel or the 8.1

Ryno

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Electrons_Rule

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Just a clarification on the Enduro transmission:

1) It is a 4R100 transmission - the similar to the trans found on every SuperDuty F-Series
2) It is capable of more ratios than the production 4 ratios - not including converter clutch lockups - but we haven't added any gearsets, or anything like that :)
3) The software can select which of the ratios to activate, and the joystick is used to step through the activated ratios
4) There is no mechanical "override" for the trans - if the electronics fail - Smith/Ashley are hitching a ride. Incidently, since we went to this new configuration in 99 with Enduro's new Trophy Truck, we have not had a SINGLE transmission electronic control system failure. We have broken some mechanical bits though :)

We take considerable pride in the fact that we are running a predominantly production, modern electronic transmission in a Trophy Truck. I may be mistaken, but I don't think any other Trophy Truck can make that claim, unless there is someone out there running a 4L80E or an Allison 1000. Incidently, when Herzog came out with the Trailblazers, they had old THM-400's in them. I asked one of the GM Powertrain engineers at the Nevada 2000 why they weren't running 4L80e's. He said they wanted something bullet proof....

And don't even get me started on our engine!

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StandOnTheGas

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Thanks for the lowdown on the Ford Powertrain Jamal. Nice to see your input. So will they pull it off in San Felipe? Email me or send a private message. Click on StandOnTheGas for my profile.

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jcorsico

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How does Herbst shift it - is there still some type of handle/joystick to the right side of the driver, or do they run paddles or some other setup behind the steering wheel?

And what do you mean by a "torque shaft"? Do you mean just some shaft in there that has a little flex to it that will handle the shock loads, or something else like a part that only gets engaged during shifting and that will turn the extra shock load into heat?

Have they done away with a mechanical throttle linkage? All that runs into the computer now?

Thanks for the dirt Dave!

Jon
 

FABRICATOR

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KLAUS
The 4L80E is a sort of a computer controlled Turbo 400. Approximately 3/4 of the hard parts are the same and interchangable. Unlike most other overdrive transmissions, the overdrive unit is in in the front part of the trans case instead of the rear. The computer does control the shift points while in drive. It also controls the shift firmness and convertor lock-up. It does this with several solenoids on the valve body. There is conventional shift linkage for manually (hydraulicly) selecting other ranges and downshifting similar to a 400. (It hooks up about 2 inches farther back than a 400). There are no mechanical inputs to sense any shaft speeds, vehicle speeds or throttle opening. These are handled electronically. Engine loads are sensed by a combination of TPS (Throttle Position Sensor) and MAP (Manifold Absolute Pressure [vacuum]) sensor. The trans is about 4 inches longer than a 400 and about 100 Lbs heavier. The input shaft is larger than a 400. The output arrangement is larger right up to the output spline. In most applications the spline is the same as a 400 although it sticks out about 1-1/2" farther. There are also two magnetic sensors on the side of the case that tell the computer internal shaft speeds and one on the tail housing for vehicle speed. The tail housings are very similar but do not interchange with the 400.

I put one of these trannys in my Big Old Chevy 4WD with an aftermarket computer. The shift points and firmness can be dialed by turning two potentiometers. I also machined my own adapter to bolt up 205 transfer case. The transfer case must be spaced back at least an inch or the output u-joint will hit the wider trans pan. My computer only uses a MAP sensor. A better setup should use a TPS also. You can also use a GM computer for a Diesel powered truck or other programmable aftermarket computers. There are aftermarket tail housings that have gears for mechanical speedometers. In mine, the transfer case took care of that problem. I learned most of this stuff the hard way and can rebuild one one in about 4 to 5 hours (the overdrive unit is the tricky part). And there are some built in "limp home" capabilities. I know this is more than you asked, but thought others might like to know.

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Dave_G

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Re: And don't even get me started on our engine!

Uh oh, that must mean were still having problems with head gaskets? ;-)

Dave


"I know it all, but I can't remember most of it..."
 

Dave_G

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Re: Do you mean just some shaft in there that has a little flex to it that will handle the shock loads.

Exactly. That's where some of the trouble has been in the 6 speed. If you make the shaft too large it won't twist enough to absorb the shock loads and if it's too small it will break. You also have to consider the life cycle of the shaft depending on how many degrees it has twisted and how many times it's been twisted. This also includes reverse loading. All this has to be calculated to determin the correct shaft size and material it is to be made from. This shaft problem is what took them out at Laughlin.

Dave

"I know it all, but I can't remember most of it..."
 

Kritter

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Hey Dave sounds like a fun stress problem. Need somebody to run the calcs? Let me know.



Kris
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Ryno

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Fabricator-

Why don't you run a stand alone fuel injection? Even a TBI would be better than a carb. Edelbrock also makes some trick units. I say this because in my experience a TPS will greatly improve throttle response and torque, while also improving mileage due to the exactly voltage of the sensor to the ECU. An O2 sensor will work wonders as well...it will almost tune to the truck for you, as for the mixture. I'm interested as to what software you run on the 4x4.

Ryno

PS-According to some Powertrain guys I've talked to...the 4L80 is just like the 4L60, they both need kevlar clutch paks, billet servos, and a heavy duty valve body just for starters. I had my 4L60E built about a year ago, and It has yet to break. This is transmission #3 is 160,000.

Build it like a Rhino, and Leave it be.
 

Dave_G

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Re: Need somebody to run the calcs? Let me know.

Nope. We've already done that but I appreciate the offer. ;-)

Dave

"I know it all, but I can't remember most of it..."
 

jcorsico

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Dave,

Is the Herbst trans a modified off-the-shelf unit, or did you guys custom design and build the entire thing housing, gears, computer, and all?

Thanks again!
Jon
 
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