At what point ?

johnboy

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I also posted in the other thread, but I still reinforce the thought process of why race 2 wheel and 4 wheels on the same course when there is no competition between the two. Isn't it like holding a Rally car race at the same time and the same course as BITD race just because the support resources are all in place. The motorcycle guys should simply find a sponsor and support a motorcycle race on that course any day of the year but that day. Maybe Robby should race the SST trucks with the open wheel cars at Long Beach instead of in their separate window of time as they do now. Really, what is the difference? Because its not a good idea????
Simple fix, motorcycle racers race in motorcycle races!
 

harleys dad

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mostly the cost of racing in the big leagues have dropped the amount of handle bar guys, just look at the amount in CODE, ORS, D37/38 , Puerta and other orgs. Score and BITD (not as much as Score but going there) prices are out of the reach for the average rider. so very few make it. I do get your point that it dangerous and maybe not safe. but it part of the sport and EDUCATION and patience from both parts its the key. look back from 1990 until today , when is the most of the accidents happening ? 1 or 2 a yr if that..
I been following Score since 2011(chasing and lately racing it) and very few vehicle/handlebar accidents to do big changes. now since you can and have seen it. why is the trucks hitting the handlebars? most of the world I have seen, the one that hits from the rear is the one at fault in a vehicle accident. (you do have those that occasionally ones that slam on the breaks without reason, but that's a different story)

@PAB the TT cant see that is a quad/bike and not a caged vehicle in front of them making the dust.? I never rode a TT on a race, just cruise, so I don't know the view from the cockpit
Pab and I finished 7th overall at a Baja 500 in a 1600 car, I drove the 2nd half and passed more bikes than I can count, every time I thought I was catching a car there was so much dust till I would see the helmet. A TT sits higher forsure but I cant speak for them but I can tell you bikes throw up a hell of a lot more dust than you might think. Untill they either eliminate bikes which have been around since the very first Baja 1000 or money to run 2 different days is going to come from who??
 

harleys dad

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I bet the argument from the promoters will be to much cost to start them earlier and the TTs later, that has been hounded on for decades and never changes
 

Doug8765

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I used to ride my 1985 atc 250r like a werewolf was chasing me i placed 12 overall 1986 barstow to vegas


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TRON3000

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2012 Baja 1000 I left the starting line in a brand new alumicraft class 10 car. This was a point to point race and we had done our homework prerunning and invested a ton of time and money to be the best we could be. I took the first 537 miles and was on a great pace mixing it up with the Banning guys through bay of LA. I had 30 miles to go to pass the car off to my partner. I was in dust and had an amber light ahead of me that looked to be possibly the leader of our class. I was close enough that I could see his dust light and I knew if he hit the brakes I too would need to check up. What I didn't know was a quad had pulled over and let him by only to fall right back in line placing himself between my buggy and the car I was chasing. This quad rider had no rear facing light at all, no helmet flasher, no brake light, and no backpack amber. Well he ended up on the hood of my 10 car and luckily when we tangled he rolled right back and on the hood and his quad was wedged in the passenger side A Arms. The rider was pretty much uninjured (I have no idea how, my co driver thought he was dead). Briefly after coming to a stop and still in shock at what had just happened we experienced the worst rearend smash I have ever experienced in my life. A class 1 buggy had been chasing us down and obviously didn't expect a parked car behind the curtain of dust. This quad rider that was most likely 4-5 hours down and trying to finish for the fact of just that, finishing has just cost me my race, a potential win, and a $30,000 bill between the new engine, fortin transmission case, half of a chassis from alumicraft, paneling, powder coat, and the wasted expense of all of our chase trucks down south. It was extremely frustrating to say the least and it was completely unnecessary at the same time.
As Cameron stated it is not the fast guys on 2 or 4 wheels that are causing the dangers, its the weekend warrior sportsman riders that have no regard for the investment we have made to be out there and the level of seriousness we take when we are out there doing this. There is nothing more frustrating than being in a good position in your class and trying to better your position only to come up on an under experienced and completely exhausted rider that is struggling to find the perfect spot to turn off the course and let you by. It happens a lot in the mex races and I'm sure Vegas to Reno is the same, go from flat out race pace to slowly crawling along watching some gassed out rider get speed wobbles in the sand trying to find his exit at his convenience. There has to be a better and safer way. The rider that cost us out Baja 1000 was lucky to be alive and extremely fortunate that it worked out the way it did. As glad as I was to see him uninjured I certainly wanted to kill him at the same time.
 

Baja Dad

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I also posted in the other thread, but I still reinforce the thought process of why race 2 wheel and 4 wheels on the same course when there is no competition between the two. Isn't it like holding a Rally car race at the same time and the same course as BITD race just because the support resources are all in place. The motorcycle guys should simply find a sponsor and support a motorcycle race on that course any day of the year but that day. Maybe Robby should race the SST trucks with the open wheel cars at Long Beach instead of in their separate window of time as they do now. Really, what is the difference? Because its not a good idea????
Simple fix, motorcycle racers race in motorcycle races!


you do know that BITD was started by Moto guys and they added 4 wheels later
between the moto and the utv they were over 50% of VTR
TT only 14%
quit the power trip and try to help
 
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Doug8765

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Quite the side topic, but 3-wheelers were never banned. The manufacturers agreed not to build them, which was a moot point, as quad sales had already taken-off.

Yes i wore out 3 of atc 250rs and 3 trx 250s


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rustyb

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As Cameron stated it is not the fast guys on 2 or 4 wheels that are causing the dangers, its the weekend warrior sportsman riders that have no regard for the investment we have made to be out there and the level of seriousness we take when we are out there doing this. There is nothing more frustrating than being in a good position in your class and trying to better your position only to come up on an under experienced and completely exhausted rider that is struggling to find the perfect spot to turn off the course and let you by. It happens a lot in the mex races and I'm sure Vegas to Reno is the same, go from flat out race pace to slowly crawling along watching some gassed out rider get speed wobbles in the sand trying to find his exit at his convenience.

Not trying to be a complete suckup, but for whatever it's worth, this weekend warrior sportsman rider does have regard for the investment you have made and the seriousness of your effort. I'm sure I'll be attacked for it but I feel that with the speed difference so great the onus is on me to watch for you and get off the course; if a rider doesn't agree with the philosophy then just consider the reality: in a collision, you lose. Yes, it's a pain in the ass to turn and look behind you every 10 seconds, then get off the course and wait for the dust to clear, but I had fun on the other sections before we were caught, and I came home with a sound body (well, as sound as it was before the race).

We need to find a way to get through to the new moto/quad guys how incredibly dangerous it is to be passed offroad in the dust by a vehicle traveling 2 or more times their speed. Not sure how to implement that, but it needs to be a priority.
 

johndjmix

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Hey Rusty, missed you a V2r....but kick ass job man!!!!

Back to the issue. Make a 6 hour gap. Problem 100% solved.

I want to run my ATV at a few next year but wont do it with the current gap. Baja is a long, long race, so vehicles are more spread out, and the gap isnt as big of a deal. In the 1000 you usually wont have the trucks coming till night, when you can see their lights.....but here in the US, with shorter courses. My hat off to all the bike/quad guys that ran V2R, it was super dusty and very tight in quite a few sections.

I Love racing the truck, but hope the gap gets widened to make this safer so i can run the quad once in a while.
 

Honda48X

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2012 Baja 1000 I left the starting line in a brand new alumicraft class 10 car. This was a point to point race and we had done our homework prerunning and invested a ton of time and money to be the best we could be. I took the first 537 miles and was on a great pace mixing it up with the Banning guys through bay of LA. I had 30 miles to go to pass the car off to my partner. I was in dust and had an amber light ahead of me that looked to be possibly the leader of our class. I was close enough that I could see his dust light and I knew if he hit the brakes I too would need to check up. What I didn't know was a quad had pulled over and let him by only to fall right back in line placing himself between my buggy and the car I was chasing. This quad rider had no rear facing light at all, no helmet flasher, no brake light, and no backpack amber. Well he ended up on the hood of my 10 car and luckily when we tangled he rolled right back and on the hood and his quad was wedged in the passenger side A Arms. The rider was pretty much uninjured (I have no idea how, my co driver thought he was dead). Briefly after coming to a stop and still in shock at what had just happened we experienced the worst rearend smash I have ever experienced in my life. A class 1 buggy had been chasing us down and obviously didn't expect a parked car behind the curtain of dust. This quad rider that was most likely 4-5 hours down and trying to finish for the fact of just that, finishing has just cost me my race, a potential win, and a $30,000 bill between the new engine, fortin transmission case, half of a chassis from alumicraft, paneling, powder coat, and the wasted expense of all of our chase trucks down south. It was extremely frustrating to say the least and it was completely unnecessary at the same time.
As Cameron stated it is not the fast guys on 2 or 4 wheels that are causing the dangers, its the weekend warrior sportsman riders that have no regard for the investment we have made to be out there and the level of seriousness we take when we are out there doing this. There is nothing more frustrating than being in a good position in your class and trying to better your position only to come up on an under experienced and completely exhausted rider that is struggling to find the perfect spot to turn off the course and let you by. It happens a lot in the mex races and I'm sure Vegas to Reno is the same, go from flat out race pace to slowly crawling along watching some gassed out rider get speed wobbles in the sand trying to find his exit at his convenience. There has to be a better and safer way. The rider that cost us out Baja 1000 was lucky to be alive and extremely fortunate that it worked out the way it did. As glad as I was to see him uninjured I certainly wanted to kill him at the same time.
So you complain about the tired wiped out rider and yet you most likely have driven for 10 to 11 hours as you said you were at mile 507. What about the truck / car drivers that are wiped out. Every TT driver I have talked to says it's super tuff and demanding to drive a TT at that speed. Most seem to put the blame on the bikes yet we have an 18 year old driving a TT and for how long has he been behind a wheel. There is shared blame on both sides.
 

timmymo

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So you complain about the tired wiped out rider and yet you most likely have driven for 10 to 11 hours as you said you were at mile 507. What about the truck / car drivers that are wiped out. Every TT driver I have talked to says it's super tuff and demanding to drive a TT at that speed. Most seem to put the blame on the bikes yet we have an 18 year old driving a TT and for how long has he been behind a wheel. There is shared blame on both sides.

Racist ^^^


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harleys dad

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2012 Baja 1000 I left the starting line in a brand new alumicraft class 10 car. This was a point to point race and we had done our homework prerunning and invested a ton of time and money to be the best we could be. I took the first 537 miles and was on a great pace mixing it up with the Banning guys through bay of LA. I had 30 miles to go to pass the car off to my partner. I was in dust and had an amber light ahead of me that looked to be possibly the leader of our class. I was close enough that I could see his dust light and I knew if he hit the brakes I too would need to check up. What I didn't know was a quad had pulled over and let him by only to fall right back in line placing himself between my buggy and the car I was chasing. This quad rider had no rear facing light at all, no helmet flasher, no brake light, and no backpack amber. Well he ended up on the hood of my 10 car and luckily when we tangled he rolled right back and on the hood and his quad was wedged in the passenger side A Arms. The rider was pretty much uninjured (I have no idea how, my co driver thought he was dead). Briefly after coming to a stop and still in shock at what had just happened we experienced the worst rearend smash I have ever experienced in my life. A class 1 buggy had been chasing us down and obviously didn't expect a parked car behind the curtain of dust. This quad rider that was most likely 4-5 hours down and trying to finish for the fact of just that, finishing has just cost me my race, a potential win, and a $30,000 bill between the new engine, fortin transmission case, half of a chassis from alumicraft, paneling, powder coat, and the wasted expense of all of our chase trucks down south. It was extremely frustrating to say the least and it was completely unnecessary at the same time.
As Cameron stated it is not the fast guys on 2 or 4 wheels that are causing the dangers, its the weekend warrior sportsman riders that have no regard for the investment we have made to be out there and the level of seriousness we take when we are out there doing this. There is nothing more frustrating than being in a good position in your class and trying to better your position only to come up on an under experienced and completely exhausted rider that is struggling to find the perfect spot to turn off the course and let you by. It happens a lot in the mex races and I'm sure Vegas to Reno is the same, go from flat out race pace to slowly crawling along watching some gassed out rider get speed wobbles in the sand trying to find his exit at his convenience. There has to be a better and safer way. The rider that cost us out Baja 1000 was lucky to be alive and extremely fortunate that it worked out the way it did. As glad as I was to see him uninjured I certainly wanted to kill him at the same time.
Personally I could care less how much YOU spend in time money bla bla bla that has nothing to do with anything thats on you, your race is no more important than mine or the quad guy you ran over. He paid to get into the race its unfortunate what happened but maybe you were beyond tired and if you wernt maybe you would have seen him. No ones race is more important than the next guys no matter how serious YOU take it or how much you spend. At the end of the day its a hobby sport
 

cynicwanderer

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BITD should create a sportsman class for motos/quads, like the 8100 class, this class should run near the back. and first time V2R entrants should be strongly encourage to run in this class, vintage/quads could also run in this class.

yes, the course will be rutted and you would have to be a fairly good rider to do well. the TTs won't have to worry about the slow/inexperienced dual sporters and bucket listers on the course. I bet it would attract new riders because it gives them a chance to experience V2R without having to tangle with trucks. they could reduce the entry fee or make the satellite tracker optional, etc...

it might actually be pretty fun and rewarding for the participants, because even a slow rider will be able to pick off some stragglers and slower vehicles, to experience that rush. it won't pay championship points and almost everyone will time out, but there should be some kind of light hearted award/recognition at the awards banquet (like farthest, oldest bike/rider, etc...). after that, you'll know if you're ready to race up front the next time. this would be seen as a safe way for BITD to deal with this problem.
 

Baja Dad

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BITD should create a sportsman class for motos/quads, like the 8100 class, this class should run near the back. and first time V2R entrants should be strongly encourage to run in this class, vintage/quads could also run in this class.

yes, the course will be rutted and you would have to be a fairly good rider to do well. the TTs won't have to worry about the slow/inexperienced dual sporters and bucket listers on the course. I bet it would attract new riders because it gives them a chance to experience V2R without having to tangle with trucks. they could reduce the entry fee or make the satellite tracker optional, etc...

it might actually be pretty fun and rewarding for the participants, because even a slow rider will be able to pick off some stragglers and slower vehicles, to experience that rush. it won't pay championship points and almost everyone will time out, but there should be some kind of light hearted award/recognition at the awards banquet (like farthest, oldest bike/rider, etc...). after that, you'll know if you're ready to race up front the next time. this would be seen as a safe way for BITD to deal with this problem.


NO !!! this is not a JOY ride it is a Race ( that means SPEED!!!! )
What they should do is DROP the sportsman class in the point to point V2R and open the time gap
first PRO bike of the line at 5:30am first TT off at 1:00pm

I am sorry but the truth hurts
 

PAB

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NO !!! this is not a JOY ride it is a Race ( that means SPEED!!!! )
What they should do is DROP the sportsman class in the point to point V2R and open the time gap
first PRO bike of the line at 5:30am first TT off at 1:00pm

I am sorry but the truth hurts

You have a lot of strong opinions and been on RDC for 4 months.....what are your credentials so we know who is writing and how we should absorb it?
 

Bdub 1020

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King Dave said Hobby sport , now that's the truth. No one should ever be in front of TTs or 1s period anymore. ITs 2017 we don't carry brick phones on our hips and unlimited vehicles can go 140mph . Off road desert racing has never been about how smooth the course whether your on a bike quad or in an 11 car.
 

Baja Dad

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You have a lot of strong opinions and been on RDC for 4 months.....what are your credentials so we know who is writing and how we should absorb it?

I have won a few races in the past!
O.A. Score and HDRA champion
you know me
I have been on RDC for years just not poisting
 
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