At what point ?

BLISHBLORP

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Should an 18 year old be driving a TT? I wonder if Cam Steele was driving, would this have happened?
 
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cynicwanderer

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NO !!! this is not a JOY ride it is a Race ( that means SPEED!!!! )
What they should do is DROP the sportsman class in the point to point V2R and open the time gap
first PRO bike of the line at 5:30am first TT off at 1:00pm

I am sorry but the truth hurts

well, that's your expert opinion and what you believe, but hardly the (fact based) truth. probably more to the point is that when you eliminate all the people that go to slow, who do you think is going to help pay for your team's opportunity to ride in it. I don't think that the promoters will be able to put on a race like V2R or Baja, if only 10-25% of the current entrants are allowed to race, unless they raise the entry fee exponentially (even for bikes). that is probably more the reality of it. so, I think it behooves you guys to be more tolerant of the amateurs/sportman and work together to figure out how to make this all work.

[added]
out of motos/quads there were 28 finishers with 45+mph average and 7 with 50+mph average. what do you think the cut off speed should be ?
[/added]
 
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johndjmix

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What does the fact that he was 18 have to do with it? 18 year olds fly planes and race supercross. The fact that he stopped and sat there with the guy until help arrived shows what kind of a person he is. Good man.

Widen the gap, problem solved.

--John
 

vegasloki

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Should an 18 year old be driving a TT? I wonder if Cam Steele was driving, would this have happened?
Unless PAB has the psychic ability to know an ATV is going to re-enter the course in a dust cloud thinking the only truck behind him had passed I don't see how it could be any different. This wreck highlights the danger of racing, particularly off road racing where a split second decision or move the wrong way can have catastrophic consequences. If nothing else it can serve as a warning to all that when re-entering the course there may be others in that dust cloud closing on you.
 

mxracer50

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BITD should create a sportsman class for motos/quads, like the 8100 class, this class should run near the back. and first time V2R entrants should be strongly encourage to run in this class, vintage/quads could also run in this class.

yes, the course will be rutted and you would have to be a fairly good rider to do well. the TTs won't have to worry about the slow/inexperienced dual sporters and bucket listers on the course. I bet it would attract new riders because it gives them a chance to experience V2R without having to tangle with trucks. they could reduce the entry fee or make the satellite tracker optional, etc...

it might actually be pretty fun and rewarding for the participants, because even a slow rider will be able to pick off some stragglers and slower vehicles, to experience that rush. it won't pay championship points and almost everyone will time out, but there should be some kind of light hearted award/recognition at the awards banquet (like farthest, oldest bike/rider, etc...). after that, you'll know if you're ready to race up front the next time. this would be seen as a safe way for BITD to deal with this problem.
This is a great idea, I am sure there are a lot of semi fast riders that would love to do these races but want nothing to do with getting past by a trophy truck. Let the pro and expert classes go first, everyone else start behind and keep the pits open to allow a decent paced rider to finish the race.
 

johnboy

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Baja Dad, you are the one having some issues on here. I truly am concerned for bike riders, I am one as well as have I raced 4 wheel trucks and buggies. When I referenced SST and Indy cars, I was seriously making a point, just as why don't they race speedway bikes and the sprint cars at the same time, not a very good idea I assume.
Only the best pro riders can stay ahead and not get caught, so if the promotor, and it is there race to run, doesn't want to extend the span of the racing hours, then I feel the non pro bikes and quads should start in the rear, or go race a motorcycle race. And you assumed, I didn't know Casey and the history of BITD, wrong on your part.
 

vegasloki

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When I referenced SST and Indy cars, I was seriously making a point, just as why don't they race speedway bikes and the sprint cars at the same time, not a very good idea I assume.

Circuit racing is on a closed track. Usually only between a 1/4 mile and 2 miles. Endurance racing and much of the pro and club sports car racing scene is multiple classes with multiple driver experience and power levels in the cars at the same time on the same track. There is no comparison running point to point or even long loop races with shorter closed tracks.

Desert racing has a long history of mixing bikes and cars. Much if not most of rally raid does as well. The solution isn't to exclude people, it's to give them enough information so they can make informed decisions.
 

Baja Dad

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Baja Dad, you are the one having some issues on here. I truly am concerned for bike riders, I am one as well as have I raced 4 wheel trucks and buggies. When I referenced SST and Indy cars, I was seriously making a point, just as why don't they race speedway bikes and the sprint cars at the same time, not a very good idea I assume.
Only the best pro riders can stay ahead and not get caught, so if the promotor, and it is there race to run, doesn't want to extend the span of the racing hours, then I feel the non pro bikes and quads should start in the rear, or go race a motorcycle race. And you assumed, I didn't know Casey and the history of BITD, wrong on your part.


Not at all I agree with what you are saying about the NON Pro motos
my grip is that most just want to point the blame
I did not assume anything ... I was just stating Fact about BITD.
 
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Jerry

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I'm kinda glad I race in smaller venues and don't have to worry about bikes, quads and side by sides.

Unfortunately it seems as though nothing will happen until an incident is on the national news and we are once again compelled.

I suspect money is the issue and the lack there of being the main reason some races aren't safer.




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BajaboundMoto

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Baja Dad has the 2-wheel experience, for sure. He's raced plenty of Baja dating way back. Has been a factory Kawi and Honda racer. Now his kids race and are Pro level competitive. He can barely walk from the years of injuries ;-) He's just loud and abrasive, but that's just the way Mark has always been. Not picking on you Mark, you know that.

Mark, I'm with you on many points as I'm sure other people are too, it's just the way you type it.
Some people can't handle Pete. Mark is just Mark. But both of them have been around.
Just sayin'.

SO.... nothing is going to change WHO enters VtoR on a bike because of RDC. I'd guess the wobblers don't look here. But if you look at some other forums where the riders are looking for an "Adventure", there you'll see guys being told "GO FOR IT!" when they say they want to ride thier BW200 (see earlier fat-tire bike pic) or GS1200 BMW at Baja or VtoR.
On a site like that Baja Dad, myself, and a very few others are talked down to when we tell them NO DON'T DO IT. We're the party poopers.
Baja Dad is on those sites telling people to NOT be in the way of your truck/buggy.
 

tapeworm

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Something needs to be done and unfortunately it's probably not going to happen before someone is killed and it makes national news. Let the Pros and Experts start 5-6 hours ahead of the cars and trucks, when they get caught their day is done. This will help keep the slow guys out of those classes. Start the sportsman guys behind the cars and trucks. They aren't paying a pro entry fee so they shouldn't be given the same respect. I'm not saying to treat them like second class citizens, but you should have to earn the right to start at dawn just as much as the guys who have to earn the pro license to line up next to the factory mx/sx teams every weekend.

I'm not a country clubbed nor do I race handlebars, but I do have a dog in this fight because if another accident happens that increases regulations I will feel it in the smaller series like SNORE and MORE. Repercussions will be felt throughout every series on American land if the federal government starts requiring more money for events.

BITD, please please please do something to move in a positive direction on this. At this point I believe the fault lies with the promoter for knowing there is an inherent problem and not addressing the issue.


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Dlock5

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So what happens if one of these big time TT guy's has a problem and gets caught by bikes and quads, shouldn't his day over also?. If not wouldn't the same sportsman class, that would now be starting behind him, be put in danger again through no fault of their own?.

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Jaypeg

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I have experience in both BITD and SCORE races on motorcycles and trucks. No one would accuse me of being the fastest in either (yet). When I rode bikes in BITD races I always knew that when the trucks caught me I was essentially done. If I was close to the finish I would get off course slightly and limp to the finish paralleling the course. Not getting on the course unless it was very clear and then keeping my head on a swivel making sure I could get off when the dust and sirens came. If I was more than one pit from the finish I put the bike on the truck. I did two V2R races on bikes and after the second swore I would never do another on a bike. Too many places toward the end where it is darn near impossible for a bike to quickly get off course because the side berms were so high. In Score races we got caught at night generally and there always seemed to be more warning with the lights and more room to get out of the way.

Anyway, I tend to agree that an increased spread between the start times would be a good idea. I also think that the 2 wheel guys need to recognize when their day is over and accept that fact. Riding among trucks when you are bleary eyed and exhausted is not the right choice. And just to be fair, maybe the truck guys can back off a bit from navigating blind in the dust and also recognize that bikes cant just exit the course anywhere, They are not always looking for the best place to get over, only one that is possible with out jumping a berm that they cant see over.
 

Bro_Gill

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So what happens if one of these big time TT guy's has a problem and gets caught by bikes and quads, shouldn't his day over also?. If not wouldn't the same sportsman class, that would now be starting behind him, be put in danger again through no fault of their own?.

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It is no different. They should realize they are not racing for a win and if continuing on for points, respect the slower classes that are racing in their class and not screw up their race. And YES- If they act like a Richard Cranium and take out a class 11 or some other car by slamming them when they are that far back, then they should be held accountable by the promoter and the racing public here on RDC so we can all call the Richard Craniums Dick Heads!
 

ACME

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"Maybe the answer is what PAB has suggested for years: Run the handlebar guys earlier and the cars later but also segregate the top 2-3 classes out of the equation if their speed is the primary concern.

Run the "unlimited" the day after in their own race on the tore up course.


As for back markers; it's a fact no back marker ever thinks they are out of it: Car, bike, truck or ATV. And there are tons of incidents where even "top teams" in the seat classes that are running way behind have made stupid decisions due to ego or arrogance and affected others peoples races. The problem is the promoters aren't really interested in calling out a top team so a lot of Rich Head events are pushed aside. A few get dealt between the parties and others become a popularity battle with a lot of the "have an opinion" keyboard experts on RDC...
 
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AdamD

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I raced SX and AX meaning I qualified for the nite programs, and raced amateur mx for 25 years, with a satellite Yamaha Team, having said that;

Racing Baja is sketchy and from a moto-x standpoint my buddy from team ktm who is a D37 number 1 plate holder, Has No shortage of distain and warnings when it comes to racing score and the inevitability of being caught by an unlimited vehicle.

From a conceptual standpoint this brings up the feeling of fear. Typically you cannot ride a bike while in fear, The end result is typically catastrophic, Its not a matter of If, but when you will be hurt.

You cannot ride in fear it’s unsafe for everyone.

Humbled.
 
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