average person

tedmales

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i have been reading these posts and have a question . For the average guy who drives his truck to work all week and actually hits he dirt once a month, does all the science that most people are trying to use to build, say a 3 or 4 link matter. All safety aspects aside, if somebody was to build a 4 link and just use an educated guess to the design, would they really notice the difference if his instant center was not exactly in the optimum place. I can see in a race car it would matter, but how about to the average joe who had his truck lifted at 4 wheel parts. please help me settle an debate i have been involved in..

life is too short to be small
 

boltonbros

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i guess being from arizona explains your dumb question. but why would you bother with a 4 link if it just a pus ride from 4wheel parts.

when in doubt throttle it out
 

Tim

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theres a few more races/racers in arizona than hawaii...
 

ntsqd

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That was uncalled for. The only stupid questions are those unasked and your answer promotes stupidity because people will think this is the POR bbs and not ask those questions for fear of responses like yours.

For the average guy, most of the science discussed in this section isn't real applicable. However, do not think that work done by 4WP is in anyway the height of the dezert prep art. It is nowhere even close. Most of the work I've seen performed by them had to be redone by people who know what they're doing.
IF you are going to build a 3 or 4 link, then you need to do your homework. Getting the geometry close is probalby good enough, but missing it by a lot can be dangerous to you and the peole who share the road with you.

TS

I used swerve around my halucinations, now I drive right thru them.
 

CRAIG_HALL

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Most of the talk about linking the rear was on center of gravity,roll center,instant center and so on,but most of us are doing this to a truck that is already front heavy,not equal weight distribution so it gets even harder totry to figure out .
If you start from scratch it a whole different story you are designing to keep the weight equal,with my own truck i'm not too worried about all that since its not a race truck that depends on those figures/dimensions more heavily. I'm also trying to keep my lower pivots close to the driveshaft u-joints,which are in the stock points.You you can only get so close, then what,your whole driveshaft needs 8" of plunge. Many trucks have been sucessfully linked and worked great, but are not "correct" . Hopefully mine will work!!
 

hoeker

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i agree with ntsqd on this one, but would like to stress something that he didn't. a suspension failure on the street can be far more catastrophic than off road. the average joe, that wheels once a month will be fine with any close-to-right 4-link until a link breaks on the street and kills someone. i would much rather see someone experiment on a dedicated off road rig, than a street machine. keep this in mind, read lower links 101 about 10 times, and if your still interested in trying, go for it. just keep common sense in mind, and don't worry about hasty, uncalled for responses if you have a question. one of the things that make this board great are the large number of experienced engineers, and racers that are willing to answer the questions of the occasional weekend wheeler.

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.rosshoek.com>www.rosshoek.com</A>

Some are born great, some achieve greatness,
and some have greatness thrust upon them.
 

desertracer

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Since we're on the topic of not "correct" 4 links, I was wondering what those "lateral traction bars" that fabtech and procomp make really do? Don't they help with traction and axle wrap. They claim it helps the axle travel smoother but not sure. I know that they attach to the spring plate, but do they do anything other than help with looks?

MDR #112
 

boltonbros

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that was my little cousin that thinks he knows about this stuff so sorry.

when in doubt throttle it out
 

sirhk100

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Ours bolt from the frame to the spring plate. All they do is look cool, and actually they do help a ton if you have a problem with axle wrap. If you don't then they won't do much for you. A guy here runs them on his 2WD Fi50 and he can spin the crap outta the rear tires through the dunes without a trace of wheel hop...

Khris

'92 Ford Exploder (AKA Dezert Limo cause it's loaded)
 

John Bitting

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I think the RCD traction bars look the best. I am going to pick some up to put on my stock Z-71 so when I am in the sand in mexico I dont get any wheel hop.
 

JrSyko

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There was a picture on here a while ago from a guy who built his own 4 link and it ended up rolling outwards because of how he mounted his shocks. It ruined the shocks, heims, mounts etc and this can happen if you don't do it right. I point this out, because aside from the obvious safety factor, you might end up ruining your shocks and such and wasting a lot of hard earned money!

How much are those RCD links? I get kinda bad wheel hop in the sand and going up rutted up hills.

See ya in the dirt!
 

John Bitting

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I am not sure about the price. Camburg is suppose to be carrying RCD now so he would know, or Sirhk100 works there. Here is a pic, I am not sure about the chrome but it is all I could find.
 

tedmales

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it seems to me that all those bars do is bind the suspension. they do not let the rear end move back like they need to with the springs. i have seen someone makes a set of bars that bolt solid to the rear end and use a shackle to mount them to the frame. that would let them move back and fourth, yet keep them from twisting

life is too short to be small
 

John Bitting

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As long as there is a heim on one side you should be fine and have no bind. Its when bushings are on both ends that it tends to bind during articulation, On a stock vehicle such as mine not a big deal, on a longer travel leaf pack you would not want two bushings, but bushing at the frame and heim on the rear end.


This is all assuming its been built to the proper length and is mounted in the right spot.
 

Greg

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A little experiance i had building my 4 link. I had riden in a friends truck who had a 4 link and it rode ok but had terrible wheel hop and traction problems, i attributed this to bad design. I spent a whole lotta time designing my 4 link; roll center, instant center, anti-squat, ds plunge, etc, were all considered. The first ttime i went out it had none of the negative traits my buddies truck had and i though i was really onto something. Well, one time i went out with too much tire pressure and the rear felt exactly like the other truck( bouncing, hopping), even though the rear was designed completly diferent, i aired back to where i normally run and it felt just like it was supposed to. The moral of the story is that while you can do all the research in the world, somethign as simple as tire pressure makes as big a difference as anything. As for the traction bars, i broke a bunch of leaves using them, but the helped most under hard braking. Remeber, the leaves move in funny arcs under hard acceleration and braking, sometimes the bars put another stress on the leaves that cause them to fail prematurely.

Greg
 

ntsqd

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That is a traction arm common in the crawler world. Sam's Off Road in OK is credited with coming up with the design although I'm sure they weren't the first to do it that way.

There is a variation on that theme using a spherical bearing or rod end and a hardened pin. Mount the SB or SRE to the chassis and put the pin on the end of the traction arm. Make the pin long enough to allow for the normal WB delta due to the leaf springs w/o it's being able to escape the SB/SRE.

TS

I used swerve around my halucinations, now I drive right thru them.
 

Jerry Zaiden

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If they are designed wrong yes they "will" bind the suspension, and possibly brake your frame or crack it. The track bar needs to compliment the arc of the springs. You will get axle wrap from the springs getting a wave like movement in them or flex. Better springs like Deaver will help eliminate this because they are thicker and stronger than stock 2 or 3 pack springs. A simple design of a track bar is to match the length of the front spring pivot to the center of the axle. This will be the same arc as the spring but you need to cycle it to make sure you get it correct. Also keep in mind to make the track bar strong.
 

In_the_works

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"However, do not think that work done by 4WP is in anyway the height of the dezert prep art"

...You better believe it. I just spent a grand REPLACING a lift from 4wp. If you're never gonna go offroad, fine, I'm sure it'll be ok, but to tell the truth, my truck is just as high now (after camburg arms, bent beams, and autofab coils) as it was with my 6" kit, and it cost LESS. A little off topic, I know, but I'm just a little pissed. Back on topic, anyone know anything about these? Are they functional? Would they be a good option for a daily driver/offroad truck?

'96 F-150 4x4 ex cab
'02 Maico 250
 
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