Baja 1000 Zero Emission Challenge

stephenrjking

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Separately, and I apologize for the drift, but you engage on here and I figure it’s worth a shot:

I enjoy Le Mans a great deal, and fondly remember times when tech was/is advancing unrestrained, particularly the aerodynamic monsters produced in the 80s and early 90s.

You work with fuel cells, but you’re also entering the hypercar class, so you might be the ideal subject to speak on this: I have thought for some time that the ACO should include a long-standing rule class for alternative propulsion. Full electric, fuel cells, stuff like that: Motors that are not thought to be capable of competing in the 24 Hours. But to carve out a rule set for such power units that is basically unlimited beyond basic safety requirements. So anyone who wants to take a shot at finishing the 24 with a fully electric motor or a fuel cell can innovate however they want to make the power unit last and go fast... and they’re helped by basically whatever aero package they can put together. And if you can get enough power for long enough, you can win.

I think of the recent electric VW or the souped-up 919 from a couple of years ago, how cool they were. I recall rule exceptions like the old F1 turbo rule that Renault eventually exploited, or the pushrods at Indy that brought speed from Buick and then Mercedes.

This could cause some real innovation. Perhaps an electric mfr figures out a way to do practical fast battery swaps or quick charging, or someone like you proves out a fast and reliable fuel cell.

1. could it work? 2. Would it cannibalize the top class by pulling guys like you out of it?
 

Jim Glickenhaus

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Separately, and I apologize for the drift, but you engage on here and I figure it’s worth a shot:

I enjoy Le Mans a great deal, and fondly remember times when tech was/is advancing unrestrained, particularly the aerodynamic monsters produced in the 80s and early 90s.

You work with fuel cells, but you’re also entering the hypercar class, so you might be the ideal subject to speak on this: I have thought for some time that the ACO should include a long-standing rule class for alternative propulsion. Full electric, fuel cells, stuff like that: Motors that are not thought to be capable of competing in the 24 Hours. But to carve out a rule set for such power units that is basically unlimited beyond basic safety requirements. So anyone who wants to take a shot at finishing the 24 with a fully electric motor or a fuel cell can innovate however they want to make the power unit last and go fast... and they’re helped by basically whatever aero package they can put together. And if you can get enough power for long enough, you can win.

I think of the recent electric VW or the souped-up 919 from a couple of years ago, how cool they were. I recall rule exceptions like the old F1 turbo rule that Renault eventually exploited, or the pushrods at Indy that brought speed from Buick and then Mercedes.

This could cause some real innovation. Perhaps an electric mfr figures out a way to do practical fast battery swaps or quick charging, or someone like you proves out a fast and reliable fuel cell.

1. could it work? 2. Would it cannibalize the top class by pulling guys like you out of it?
Hi
We're talking to The ACO about this. We may have a sponsor who wants to prove liquid hydrogen in ICE engines. We love ICE but also want to be on the forefront of innovative new green technologies.
 

Jammminjay

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In 2022 our goal is become the first manufacturer to finish the Baja 1000 with a Zero Emission Vehicle.
This is really cool Jim, we are looking forward to seeing this happen. Didn't work out so well for Lordstown Motors, but it wasn't for the lack of trying, more like the lack of preparation on their team.
 

Bro_Gill

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Is there really something called Zero Emissions that really has zero emissions? Can we call it different emissions? It is kind of like the whole electric car argument. As long as it takes pollution to charge the batteries with today's electrical supply options, they really do nothing to reduce emissions. Not that I am against hydrogen fuel cell development, but real scientific development versus marketing development are kind of different. It's kind of like Lordstown. They didn't really bring a vehicle with any hope of finishing in the time limit, they had no real testing or idea of battery usage, consumption rates, etc... The vehicle really wasn't based on their vehicle, just the drive hubs. I would really like to see some vehicles that are built to DO THIS, not just provide slick social media gimmick posts. I am not saying this about Glickenhaus as much as the entire phenomena that seems to create this stuff. Jim, why can't you guys R&D some batteries that will go 100 miles on a 3 hour charge and weigh 400 pounds instead???
 

stephenrjking

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Is there really something called Zero Emissions that really has zero emissions? Can we call it different emissions? It is kind of like the whole electric car argument. As long as it takes pollution to charge the batteries with today's electrical supply options, they really do nothing to reduce emissions. Not that I am against hydrogen fuel cell development, but real scientific development versus marketing development are kind of different. It's kind of like Lordstown. They didn't really bring a vehicle with any hope of finishing in the time limit, they had no real testing or idea of battery usage, consumption rates, etc... The vehicle really wasn't based on their vehicle, just the drive hubs. I would really like to see some vehicles that are built to DO THIS, not just provide slick social media gimmick posts. I am not saying this about Glickenhaus as much as the entire phenomena that seems to create this stuff. Jim, why can't you guys R&D some batteries that will go 100 miles on a 3 hour charge and weigh 400 pounds instead???
A H fuel cell is not the same thing as an electric vehicle. It is significantly different, and to my knowledge does not stress the power grid. And the article suggests that this is part of an effort to develop a commercially viable system.

I mean, SCG has already produced a vehicle that has won class in the 1000. What we’re talking about here is a different energy unit, and using Baja (which has a large number of available class rule sets and some attractively challenging logistics, along with legit brand recognition) to develop and prove it.

It’s good for the sport.
 

ltr450rider

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Jesse James recently posted about his work with hydrogen some years ago, I believe for a land speed car. Sounds like that project didn't really get anywhere. Wondering if technology at the time was not as advanced to allow for it today?

I occasionally see the Toyota Mirai (mirai) cars with a "Fuel Cell" tag on them. Apparently hydrogen converted to electricity for power. I know there is a hydrogen refueling station in Santa Monica that was put in a little over 10 years ago. Wondering why this hasn't really taken off. Seems like the cars are well priced and get decent mileage at 400 miles to a tank and quicker refueling rates than electric.

What is involved with refueling in remote area's of Baja? Would a giant chase tanker have to be driven around for refueling a race vehicle?
 

Bro_Gill

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A H fuel cell is not the same thing as an electric vehicle. It is significantly different, and to my knowledge does not stress the power grid. And the article suggests that this is part of an effort to develop a commercially viable system.

I mean, SCG has already produced a vehicle that has won class in the 1000. What we’re talking about here is a different energy unit, and using Baja (which has a large number of available class rule sets and some attractively challenging logistics, along with legit brand recognition) to develop and prove it.

It’s good for the sport.
I guess the point wasn't made.
 

Jim Glickenhaus

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Hydrogen production can be totally green. A solar still can produce Hydrogen from water. Saudi Arabia (Dakar) is spending 10 Billion dollars on such a plant. Fortescue (Aus Mining Co) is building a huge hydrogen project in the dessert. Liquid cryogenic hydrogen can be dispensed like gasoline. At 200 below zero it is safe, non explosive and obviates the need for any radiators which reduces drag and weight. Welding gas suppliers can and do supply it 24/7/365 worldwide. We may also explore swappable tanks like your BBQ. The range of our trucks will be up to 1200 miles so refueling happens much less often. Liquid hydrogen costs about $1.50 a gallon energy equivalent to gasoline. There are major companies involved with us. In volume our pickup will be priced competitively with super duty pickups. We've sim'd a Cyber Truck on the Baja 1000. It wouldn't make pit one. We think our truck can make all pits and finish in class 2 times.
 

jon coleman

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can you dipp your metal parts like brake rotors in this brew & cryogenically treat them too😵???
 

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