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Baja 500: 3 Class 10's in the TOP 20!

RedRide

Well-Known Member
#1
Congrats to the class 10 finishers especially Matt Cullen. His car was absolutely flying (in with the 1 cars). Amazing job. Whatever motor and transmission package you have I want one....Car sounded phenomenal.
 

Hawkeye

Well-Known Member
#2
I think he's got the big Honda that's only Legal in SCORE class 10. He kicked some azz that's for sure. Nice work. They were fast back when they ran a VW
 

BUSBY

Scrambler
#4
I think he's got the big Honda that's only Legal in SCORE class 10. He kicked some azz that's for sure. Nice work. They were fast back when they ran a VW
Not bigger that the 2.4L EcoTech's. It's basically a stock 2.3L Honda with an ECU ... It is bigger than the old Honda if that is what you are referring to, but all in all it's smaller than the EcoTech's being run stateside.
 

Hawkeye

Well-Known Member
#6
Not bigger that the 2.4L EcoTech's. It's basically a stock 2.3L Honda with an ECU ... It is bigger than the old Honda if that is what you are referring to, but all in all it's smaller than the EcoTech's being run stateside.
Right, I think their are a lot of people who think when they see "Honda" as the motor they think it's still the old 1.7 liter firecracker with open internals. This stock K24 sure must be a flamethrower to run with the class 1's like he did.
 

B-Dub 1020

Well-Known Member
#7
Not bigger that the 2.4L EcoTech's. It's basically a stock 2.3L Honda with an ECU ... It is bigger than the old Honda if that is what you are referring to, but all in all it's smaller than the EcoTech's being run stateside.
Here we go again , theres no comparison in power and you know it Brian. Also promoters have no way to tech these Honda's and make sure there stock (knowledge or tools). Checking just the eco-tec is hard enough according to stateside tech deptpartments. It was left at after this season class 10 racers would give there input on allowing other engines to the promoters and they would see if they could come up with the manpower and tools to tech other engine packages. SCORE always has different rules and thats ok. Congrats to Matt he hauled the mail. PS Brian are you building a 10 car
 

Hawkeye

Well-Known Member
#8
Here we go again , theres no comparison in power and you know it Brian. Also promoters have no way to tech these Honda's and make sure there stock (knowledge or tools). Checking just the eco-tec is hard enough according to stateside tech deptpartments. It was left at after this season class 10 racers would give there input on allowing other engines to the promoters and they would see if they could come up with the manpower and tools to tech other engine packages. SCORE always has different rules and thats ok. Congrats to Matt he hauled the mail. PS Brian are you building a 10 car
Good point B-Dub, there is little doubt that that the Honda K24 is a great motor, fun to drive, and probably very relaible. If rules were changed to allow any stock motor under 2.4 the K 24 guys would be on top of the world...until someone threw in x brand stock motor that beats that by 40 hp. Then round and round we would all go until the only ones that can afford to race class 10 are the Mcmillins, and I doubt thet're gonna leave class 1 and Trophy
 

BUSBY

Scrambler
#9
I just may be getting a class 10 car ... but if & when I do, I will spend my $3500 (same money Matt paid for his K24) to buy a Honda. Then I will buy an aftermarket ECU and send it out to someone to tune it. But chances are that I will continue to race class 8 and/or class 1 next season.

The engine builders and sanctioning bodies can certify Hondas. But that is neither here nor there. The masses do not want the K24 to qualify because they have EcoTechs already. But so did LaPagila ... but wait ... his EcoTech beat Matt's K24 time and time again. But we can't talk about that.

Nevermind. I was just making the point that the Honda wasn't all that BIG compared to other sealed engines being run today. But clarified that yes, it was bigger that the allowed high dollar smaller legal Hondas.

Carry on. Feel free to flame away on me, I'll go back to lurking.
 
#10
Good point B-Dub, there is little doubt that that the Honda K24 is a great motor, fun to drive, and probably very relaible. If rules were changed to allow any stock motor under 2.4 the K 24 guys would be on top of the world...until someone threw in x brand stock motor that beats that by 40 hp. Then round and round we would all go until the only ones that can afford to race class 10 are the Mcmillins, and I doubt thet're gonna leave class 1 and Trophy
Question:
If the K24 costs the same as an EcoTech ... then why wouldn't a team want to build that platform? It's been proven that you can build a stock EcoTech and/or a stock K24 for about the same money.

Why would I want to buy an engine that has a much lower base HP if the costs were close to the same???

Real question.
 
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Andy4

Well-Known Member
#13
Some more good info on the K24: it is 30cc's smaller than the 2.4L Ecotec. Also the single seat K20 that will be racing soon is 200cc's smaller than the 2.2L ecotec. Matt's engine had 60K on it when it was purchased. Didnt do any repairs on it & now it has almost a full season of SCORE on it plus extensive testing with no complaints by the owner.

Something funny about SCORE is thier rules are written any engine up to 2.2L w/ 58mm throttle body for 1 seater or 2.4L w/ 65mm throttle body for 2 seater but bitd is 2.4L ecotec or 2.0L Ford for both 1 and 2 seat vehicles....wierd.
 

RedRide

Well-Known Member
#14
Question:
If the K24 costs the same as an EcoTech ... then why wouldn't a team want to build that platform? It's been proven that you can build a stock EcoTech and/or a stock K24 for about the same money.

Why would I want to buy an engine that has a much lower base HP if the costs were close to the same???

Real question.
What ECU is being used with the K24?
 
#16
Some more good info on the K24: it is 30cc's smaller than the 2.4L Ecotec. Also the single seat K20 that will be racing soon is 200cc's smaller than the 2.2L ecotec. Matt's engine had 60K on it when it was purchased. Didnt do any repairs on it & now it has almost a full season of SCORE on it plus extensive testing with no complaints by the owner.
So, just so I'm understanding this correctly ... this "bigger, more expensive Honda" is a used 60k mile engine & a smaller engine than the EcoTech's being run stateside? Where is the super high dollar expense for these "big" Hondas?

I'm missing something here.

Funny part, guys out there like Lee Banning & John Langley have both said they would like the healthy competition of the F&L car coming up to race in BITD.

Everyone knows I'm playing devils advocate here ... but really, if you look at it ... you know what I am saying is right. The expense isn't any more really for a Honda over an EcoTech. Matt is only being held back because his BHP is higher on his stock engine than you all have. He did his homework & followed the rules written by SCORE (the ones that were written BEFORE all other sanctioning bodies wrote theirs) and got banned (by rules) after being the first one out there to build one because others had built engines on a platform that had less HP from the factory.

I say open it up ... I think you'll see more guys choose the Honda option and it will even the field out. But 99% of class 10 guys out there already dislike me, so whatever. Just calling a spade a spade again.

Have a great day!
 

RedRide

Well-Known Member
#17
So, just so I'm understanding this correctly ... this "bigger, more expensive Honda" is a used 60k mile engine & a smaller engine than the EcoTech's being run stateside? Where is the super high dollar expense for these "big" Hondas?

I'm missing something here.

Funny part, guys out there like Lee Banning & John Langley have both said they would like the healthy competition of the F&L car coming up to race in BITD.

Everyone knows I'm playing devils advocate here ... but really, if you look at it ... you know what I am saying is right. The expense isn't any more really for a Honda over an EcoTech. Matt is only being held back because his BHP is higher on his stock engine than you all have. He did his homework & followed the rules written by SCORE (the ones that were written BEFORE all other sanctioning bodies wrote theirs) and got banned (by rules) after being the first one out there to build one because others had built engines on a platform that had less HP from the factory.

I say open it up ... I think you'll see more guys choose the Honda option and it will even the field out. But 99% of class 10 guys out there already dislike me, so whatever. Just calling a spade a spade again.

Have a great day!
Sure the motors are the same cost, but you have to look at the package. If you include the Motec ECU, you are adding and additional 10K. Is it possible to run the "no-frills" mephi 5 with the K24?
 

B-Dub 1020

Well-Known Member
#18
And thats another what 5 k + Andy, I like you man and we have been down this road time and time again. When Busby and Pat own a racecar again , especially a 10 car then come on to THE CLASS 10 FORUM and give your opinion of what you think WE should do. MOST Class 10 racers cannot afford to change now from the eco-tec when it comes to engines , adapter plates , clutches,wire harness's , exhaust , ecu's and on and on. Just keep gargling Doc McCraes or whoevers sac and ride in their vehicles and leave class 10 alone. Many of us cannot afford to hardly race now. You have done pissed me off with your comments again. Worry about the class you race in please
 
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