Baja 500 post race controversy guesses???

mxben

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do you get car in the correct gear and rev the Ph u c out of it Before the silt ?, or fumble for the right gear then gas it After you float on in???

How many of these courses have you driven?? I don't know who you are so forgive me if your on the same level as Robby Gordoff the russian racer, BUT, most of these jank A$$ courses leave little time to anticipate these moves. Its all right now. And even more exaggerated in the dark.

But yes mostly hitting them wide open in whatever gear we see them in and eventually down to 1st gear on the rev limiter.
 

mxben

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The conversations about the Class x in front of Class Y always seem to center around speed, instead of safety. From the second class off the line all the way to the back, the dynamic is literally the same. The fastest guys in the next class are faster than the slowest guys in the class in front. For every class pretty much. So every time this convo for ANY class comes up, the conversation is always centered around anecdotal evidence that car y passed x amount of class x's in front of them, therefore they should start in front.

Ironically while the fast 10 guys are complaining about the slow Spec TT's in front of them, the fast UTVs, etc are complaining about the slow 10 guys. And the guys behind the UTVs are complaining about the slow UTVs. Again, its literally the same dynamic with every class so the fact that some portion of the fastest guys in one class being faster than the slowest guys in another doesn't make a sound case for moving folks around IMO.

Bottom line is it's really 6 in one hand, half dozen in the other because you're making a trade off either way. But IMO the problem with starting by qualifying speed instead of by class is that you end up mixing smaller vehicles with bigger vehicles and that raises the safety risk considerably. Point to point is different from a loop race but at this point virtually every loop race intentionally separates those vehicles where possible to eliminate the risk. I get that fast Spec guys dont want to start behind slow TT/1s. And fast 10 guys dont want to start behind slow Specs. All the way down to literally the last car off the line. But again IMO the safety risk goes up significantly when you start mixing in smaller cars with the big ones.

Then have fkng qualifying for everyone. DONE.
 

nimrod

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Actually none of it matters. I chuckle at the F1 guys who get all worked up about every little detail about what someone said or did because it’s the grandest form of motorsports in the world. In the end all forms of sports and racing are for hobby and entertainment. We’re really good at feeding and housing ourselves now so we have time and disposable income but in the end none of it really matters. We’re all guppies in a little fishbowl acting like sharks in an ocean.
 

Fifty

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I’m still curious why all the series, bitd, score, wtf, etc etc etc... run everything the same day.
One would think that doing the “slower” classes or however you want to put it on a Saturday and the “faster” classes on a Sunday... so like a “support” series.... would allow the lower teams to get more focus and drive a better bargain for their sponsors.

plus it would allow the big teams In the big cars to run/coach/jr driver/also run the race in a less expensive class.

imagine having the big $$$ sponsors also running in the slower classes to bring more attention and more purse money and ad money.

then you don’t have the tomfoolery of class on class danger.

heck it’s not like there isn’t enough vehicles/drivers trying to race. And now you’d have teams/drivers trying to compete in both.
 

paranoid56

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I’m still curious why all the series, bitd, score, wtf, etc etc etc... run everything the same day.
One would think that doing the “slower” classes or however you want to put it on a Saturday and the “faster” classes on a Sunday... so like a “support” series.... would allow the lower teams to get more focus and drive a better bargain for their sponsors.

plus it would allow the big teams In the big cars to run/coach/jr driver/also run the race in a less expensive class.

imagine having the big $$$ sponsors also running in the slower classes to bring more attention and more purse money and ad money.

then you don’t have the tomfoolery of class on class danger.

heck it’s not like there isn’t enough vehicles/drivers trying to race. And now you’d have teams/drivers trying to compete in both.
They do that in the MORE series. I kinda like it. Since i am in a slower class its nice knowing i dont have a TT coming up on me at 3x the speed lol.
Our first race was with SNORE and having a TT come up on me at night doing 3x the speed was interesting lol, I would always wave my hand letting them know i see them then get my ass over as fast as i could lol.
 

Total Loss

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I’m still curious why all the series, bitd, score, wtf, etc etc etc... run everything the same day.
One would think that doing the “slower” classes or however you want to put it on a Saturday and the “faster” classes on a Sunday... so like a “support” series.... would allow the lower teams to get more focus and drive a better bargain for their sponsors.

plus it would allow the big teams In the big cars to run/coach/jr driver/also run the race in a less expensive class.

imagine having the big $$$ sponsors also running in the slower classes to bring more attention and more purse money and ad money.

then you don’t have the tomfoolery of class on class danger.

heck it’s not like there isn’t enough vehicles/drivers trying to race. And now you’d have teams/drivers trying to compete in both.
Bikes/quads should not race on same course on same day as cagers...period...too many cars that are 2 fast now.
One of the reasons we quit doing that.
Looking back at the grill of a fire breathing TT is unnerving...lucky for us it was never painful.
 

Fifty

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I’m willing to hire myself out to any sanctioning body to do gap analysis (I actually used to do that for large scale govt operations) and outside of the box ideas.

I’d be a good set of eyes and grey matter... Since I’m not an insider or anyone of any importance... I’m not a “because we have always done it that way” nor am I attached chin to nuts to any driver or team.

I only charge room, board and travel fees!

Lolz... I had to try. Retirement is boring.
 

cwarren

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The conversations about the Class x in front of Class Y always seem to center around speed, instead of safety. From the second class off the line all the way to the back, the dynamic is literally the same. The fastest guys in the next class are faster than the slowest guys in the class in front. For every class pretty much. So every time this convo for ANY class comes up, the conversation is always centered around anecdotal evidence that car y passed x amount of class x's in front of them, therefore they should start in front.

Ironically while the fast 10 guys are complaining about the slow Spec TT's in front of them, the fast UTVs, etc are complaining about the slow 10 guys. And the guys behind the UTVs are complaining about the slow UTVs. Again, its literally the same dynamic with every class so the fact that some portion of the fastest guys in one class being faster than the slowest guys in another doesn't make a sound case for moving folks around IMO.

Bottom line is it's really 6 in one hand, half dozen in the other because you're making a trade off either way. But IMO the problem with starting by qualifying speed instead of by class is that you end up mixing smaller vehicles with bigger vehicles and that raises the safety risk considerably. Point to point is different from a loop race but at this point virtually every loop race intentionally separates those vehicles where possible to eliminate the risk. I get that fast Spec guys dont want to start behind slow TT/1s. And fast 10 guys dont want to start behind slow Specs. All the way down to literally the last car off the line. But again IMO the safety risk goes up significantly when you start mixing in smaller cars with the big ones.
I hear the safety argument again and again but do people not realize that the classes are mixed within the first 5 miles of the race? We are in a ten car and have passed spec trucks a half mile into the race who couldn't even figure out the start was not a speed zone. Half way through the race we are mixed with spec trucks, 1 cars, and trophy trucks. We are all already on the same course at the same time. I really hope they do something about these bottleneck issues because personally, if not, we won't be showing up any more. Spending the kind of money it takes to go be competitive down there and going into a bottle neck physically first then coming out the other side down an hour, without ever getting stuck, really takes the fun and competition out of racing.

Also people seem to be missing the idea of how bad it is that these people are charging full speed in the dust into Stella warned silt beds with tons of stuck traffic. Do they understand that these people ahead are likely out of their cars trying to get unstuck or help others? If you didn't see the race car you plowed into the back of do you think you're going to see a person? How many racers have been seriously injured or killed by this already? Is doing something about these bottlenecks not priority number one for score and the safety of the racers? Who is benefitting by running the races in a spot with no alternative? I just can not wrap my head around why this is something limited racers have to deal with nearly every race.
 

J Prich

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I hear the safety argument again and again but do people not realize that the classes are mixed within the first 5 miles of the race? We are in a ten car and have passed spec trucks a half mile into the race who couldn't even figure out the start was not a speed zone. Half way through the race we are mixed with spec trucks, 1 cars, and trophy trucks. We are all already on the same course at the same time. I really hope they do something about these bottleneck issues because personally, if not, we won't be showing up any more. Spending the kind of money it takes to go be competitive down there and going into a bottle neck physically first then coming out the other side down an hour, without ever getting stuck, really takes the fun and competition out of racing.

Also people seem to be missing the idea of how bad it is that these people are charging full speed in the dust into Stella warned silt beds with tons of stuck traffic. Do they understand that these people ahead are likely out of their cars trying to get unstuck or help others? If you didn't see the race car you plowed into the back of do you think you're going to see a person? How many racers have been seriously injured or killed by this already? Is doing something about these bottlenecks not priority number one for score and the safety of the racers? Who is benefitting by running the races in a spot with no alternative? I just can not wrap my head around why this is something limited racers have to deal with nearly every race.
Chase,
Agreed, that's why in that post I mentioned that really it's 6 in one hand, half dozen in the other. There is no silver bullet that gets you the prefect answer. Every option involves trade offs. The start order of every race creates issues no matter which way you do it and I can now say from a small bit of first hand experience that no matter what direction you go, some folks are going to be unhappy regardless. I'm not saying there isn't merit to the point that folks are going to get mixed up anyway so why not mix from the start, but without data I'm just saying that my overall opinion generally speaking is that the more small cars you have in front of big cars, at any point on a race course, the higher the potential for bad stuff to happen.

Regarding the silt, no start order is going to make up for poor decision making behind the wheel obviously so aside from driver responsibility and perhaps there are ways they can run courses around bottlenecks and silt that could be problematic. It's a slippery slope because for every person like you who (legitimately in my book) has safety concerns, there is another racer that says "That's what Baja is all about". So from the org, it's hard to find a happy medium there. It's a tough gig and the fact that there are no easy answers is why they are still debated over and over on places like RDC. I think really it boils down to what you said about having to make those choices as a racer, deciding what you will and won't accept as "normal" for the event and racing where you feel the most comfortable.
 

jon coleman

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Then have fkng qualifying for everyone. DONE.
ooooooh no, that can bruise ones ego, nothing worse than looking at the qualifying sheet up on the board and seeing a bunch of " slower class" cars up the grid in front of You!( yes, it hurts, personal 'speriance😠)
 

Chris_Wilson

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I'd suggest qualifying everyone and starting by speed instead of by class is safer than starting by class. It should result in less passing.
Keep in mind the promoter is trying to at least break even. There is no money coming in from TV rights or ticket sales like pro motorsports have.
Some of the ideas would add significant costs to the promoter including multiple days, fewer classes (fewer entry dollars), or ideas needing more manpower.

Regarding highway safety, I think SCORE should adopt the methods of Norra for highway sections.
There should be zero pressure or incentive to maintain a specific speed on the road as there is now.
 

J Prich

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I'd suggest qualifying everyone and starting by speed instead of by class is safer than starting by class. It should result in less passing.
Keep in mind the promoter is trying to at least break even. There is no money coming in from TV rights or ticket sales like pro motorsports have.
Some of the ideas would add significant costs to the promoter including multiple days, fewer classes (fewer entry dollars), or ideas needing more manpower.

Regarding highway safety, I think SCORE should adopt the methods of Norra for highway sections.
There should be zero pressure or incentive to maintain a specific speed on the road as there is now.
But qualifying everyone would also result in more time, money, and manpower. Imagine the logistics of qualifying every class.
 

dan200

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Imagine the logistics of qualifying every class.
Its not practical. Or, they could raise everyones entry fees to secure the equipment and man power to have a short race before the race for 300 (or whatever) vehicles. And every team can add a couple more days to their race trip and all the costs that go along with it.
 

jon coleman

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how about a charity event at k1 , all drivers who want to can qualify , then have some kind of for a charity Australian pursuit race / hour enduro, ect., nerfing ok
 

Baja Bryan

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E.Hagle

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Qualifying the top classes is all you need. That's how they do it currently. Only problem is that half of class 10 ends up passing 10 spec trucks easily. You want to talk about dangerous? Try following the dust of one of those things through the mountain roads of Baja. You're more likely to be injured driving into a boulder or off the road down a cliff compared to being caught by guys that QUALIFY SLOWER THAN YOU
 

BajaboundMoto

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I’m still curious why all the series, bitd, score, wtf, etc etc etc... run everything the same day.

Bikes/quads should not race on same course on same day as cagers...period...too many cars that are 2 fast now.
Multiple days... too much cost. Too many volunteers will need to take more days off work. SCORE pay for choppers, cops, ambulances. Pit teams like Mag7, Baja Pits, BFG, going to wear out their help.
Aint happening.

I really hope they do something about these bottleneck issues
Is doing something about these bottlenecks not priority number one for score and the safety of the racers? Who is benefitting by running the races in a spot with no alternative?
I am in no way saying do away with prerunning, because IMO the towns wont want the race without the revenue prerunning brings in, but limit it somehow.
Those silt areas weren't all silt areas 'till thousands of prerunners dug them up. I know, I ride down there more than most anyone.
Also ain't gonna happen, but if everyone had to prerun in something with less than 150HP the courses wouldn't get so blown out.
Is 3 weeks really needed to prerun? Especially in these days of VCPs (way too many VCPs)
Fragile areas, like say the silt beds North of Loreto, why are they open for prerun? It's always destroyed before the race. Make it a no prerun section, it's just a few miles, that way the course doesn't have to be changed the day before and run down the Hwy.
 
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