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begining fab

evan_clanin

Well-Known Member
#1
hello from paradise...i would like your imput on a medium priced welder what would work best mig or tig, which one would work better, drawing on a 110 volt, a tube bender and what type of tubing i should use and any other thoughts would be greatly appreciated since i do not have access to a shop any more since i moved. thanks in advance

evan clanin
 

Waldo

Safehouse
#2
You can purchase Lincoln mig welders that will work "okay" on a 110 application. I would recommend upgrading to a 220V for both Mig and Tig welding. The welds are better, faster, and you can weld thicker material. If cost is an issue then Mig welders are cheaper but the quality of a Tig is hands down way better. JD squared has reasonable tube benders but there have been a few threads on this site about making your own bender. Tube benders aren't the espensive parts, the dies are. I am sure other people can give more advice as I am an amatuer at this.

BRAAAAAAAAP!

~Waldo~
 

singlehanded

Well-Known Member
#3
I dont know how much you know about welding, but I bought a mig lincoln 200 it works great and is easy to learn on. That may be a little much for you the 110 were about 800 bucks if I remembered right. Buy a tig after you are good on a mig, you can get anywhere with a mig but tight spot are very difficult with a tig, Also It would be good to take some classes at a local jc. I bought a dezert tools bender, they sell them at donahoe racing and a notcher you may want one of these to cut down on time grinding tubing. I would start off with 1 1/2 mild steel 120 wall. But if your building something to race in a certain class check the rule book.
LATE

local
 

evan_clanin

Well-Known Member
#4
i have taken a few years of welding and several projects..like cuttin a cadi in half and makin a trailer bbq out of the engine compartment and takin the strait axel out the back and mounting it to the front..any ways. i know what im doin but i dont know what to use...i live in key west right now so class rules are not a option, and dies, sorry but i have never bent any tubbing befor so i dont know what that is, and any places to order from cuz i cant really get to so cal to pick it up..
thanks
evan


<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by evan_clanin on 10/04/01 02:23 PM (server time).</FONT></P>
 

sirhk100

Well-Known Member
#5
Dies are teh pieces that you put into the bender to bend it. The tube forms to the shape and curve of the die. You need a die for each diameter of tube your working with. It's not a one size fits all thing.

Aren't the JD benders manufactured in the south somewhere? I could have sworn they're made in Florida. What's the webpage?

'99YZ400,
'92 Ford Exploder lifted work in progress,
lifted golf cart
 

rdc

- users no longer part of the rdc family -
#6
I have done all my welding with a Licoln SP100 welder. It is about 10 years old and is still going strong! It can do up to 3/16" but that is pushing it. Yes JD Squared is in Florida, but well I don't recomend them. I have had nothing but troubles with mine. Although I seem to be the only one. I think I over clean the tubing! Just a little advice. If you do get a JD2 bender don't used WD40.

Good Luck

Tony
 

BradM

Well-Known Member
#7
I would not buy a 110V welder. You should know by now that you get what you pay for. 110V welders will have lower operating current levels with significantly lower duty cycles. They are basically toys that should not be used for fabrication work. Miller, Lincoln, Esab and others all offer multiple 220V welders. They should have an entry level 220V mig welder available for about $1000 to $1200 plus you need a bottle and flow meter or at least a regulator. Another added benefit of these welders is that they are extremely versatile. With a change of the liner and tip you can run different size wire for different applications from sheet metal to plate. With a little experience, you should be able to weld up to 1/4 or 3/8 depending on the machine with suitable penetration. I would also suggest you run a 75/25 Argon/CO2 mix gas rather than straight CO2. It has better shielding, produces a hotter arc, and generally less splatter than straight CO2.

Mig vs. tig is a separate debate. I personally use a tig for almost all chassis work. It is stronger, cleaner, and more controlable. Mig is much quicker and easier to work with. Much of the weld is build up on top with less penetration. Tig allows for much more precise control of the weld. You can also change the tungsten and cup sizes for various metal thicknesses with a tig. Another major advantage to a good tig machine is the versatility to weld steel, stainless, aluminum, and other alloys. Low end 220V tig machines will probably run about $1800 and will come with an air cooled torch. High end production level machines will have a water cooled torch and a heat exchanger. Water cooled torches are smaller and often easier to control in tight areas.

For the novice fabricator, I would recommend you start with a 220V mig machine. They are very forgiving and versatile. If you get good and you want to improve on your abilities, then consider stepping up to a tig. Also, I would look long and hard at the classifieds. Out here I see them in the recycler quite a bit. You can often find good deals on used welders from people who want to step up to a bigger or more powerful machine. If you find one, test it out first. Also, I find that a good indicator of how people take care of their equipment is to look at their shop. If it is clean and organized, they probably take good car of their tools.





Build 'em light, wind 'em tight
 

ntsqd

Well-Known Member
#8
I've found WD40 to be great for removing adhesive residue left by stickers and not much good for anything else. Use an EP grease on the tubing when bending it. The dies will last longer and you won't gall the tubing.
I'll echo BradM's advice on going with a 220V MIG. Although I think reasonable work can be done with a 110V MIG, you really have to know their limitations and they aren't for someone just getting started in spite of how they're marketed. There are techniques to fudge things some when the welder is just short of what the weld needs to be, but they require more equipment and experience.

"Teach you all I know and you're still stupid"
-- Howdy Lee
 

Stan

Well-Known Member
#9
<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>

Use an EP grease on the tubing when bending it

<hr></blockquote>

Extreme pressure grease? Or does the EP mean something else? I'm wainting on a JD2 bender, but if I don't hear anything in the next couple of days, I'm canceling and going to Anaheim.

"Rehabilitation begins at autopsy."
 

Greg

Well-Known Member
#10
Last year I bought a lincoln sp120 for doing small stuff around the shop (our other wire feeder starts at 200 and goes to 600 amps) and it works great for small stuff. You could build a car with it but it will take longer than if you had a nice 250 amp machine. just spend time fitting and preping the tubing. Also, let it cool down between passes, you will be running it at full power even welding .120 wall and they need time to cool down. Tig is a more controlled process, especially on thin material, but takes about 4 times longer to weld the same distance as mig. but tig is so much cleaner that the time factor comes very close after you spend all that extra time cleaning spatter. Ive never messed with the 110v inverter style tigs, anyone here have any advise on those? I know they usally only do dc but would they be good for a home shop?

Greg
 

rdc

- users no longer part of the rdc family -
#11
If you have the cash by all means go with the 220v mig. But I have to say that a 110v mig will and does do the job ... And I don't think the learning is that hard. Austin has never welded before and is now welding fairly good with only whatching me.

Will the weld hold ? You tell me.. I used my lincoln SP 100 to weld my front bumper that is used all the time. Ask Austin. The tubing has bent but the welds have not failed what so ever. I used it to weld in the hoops for my coil-overs and have had zero failure...

Like I said before by all means if you have the money step up and get the 220v mig. You will be very happy you did. But if money is tight then a 110v will get it done. The low duty cycle will slow you down a little with a 110v unit but there always seems to be something to do while waiting for the welder to cool off.

Tig welding is a whole different deal and unless you know what you are doing I would stay away from it. What some of these other experts have not pointed out is that with a tig you can put down a nice bead and still have a weld you can break with a hammer. You really have to have an eye for what you are doing. With a mig you will know when your welding to cold because it will look like crap if you can get it to weld at all. With a mig all you need to worry about is making sure you melt both sides of the weld (both peices metal your sticking together)..

And on what to use for lubrication when bending tubing.. Well it seems crazy but the best thing is to use nothing...

Tony
 

84toy

Well-Known Member
#12
i just recently bought a hobart handler 175 (220 volts mig) and i love it. It's the cheapest best 220v welder I've come across but it works like a champ.

Jason
 

BradM

Well-Known Member
#13
Sorry if I came across wrong. I wasn't saying that a 110V mig welder is useless, just close to it. As Thom pointed out, it requires a little more experience and knowledge to compensate on heavier metal. I just think for the extra $500 or so is well worth the increase in versatility and capacity. I have used a Lincoln sp110 before and I had best results with a shielded wire and no gas (like arc welding with a wire feed). It was for a job outside where the gas would be blown away and not shield the arc.



Build 'em light, wind 'em tight
 

rdc

- users no longer part of the rdc family -
#14
Has anyone else had trouble using WD40 with their JD2 bender? The only thing I have used with mine is WD40 and I have had no bending problems with it. The only problem I had with the bender is that they put one of my following bars together wrong, so when I made my bend the bar didn't follow around the tube but dug into it.
 

evan_clanin

Well-Known Member
#15
okay.. you guys are awsome, iv been lookin around at different welders any other sites i should know about were one can be mail ordered and what amp range should i be looking at for 1 1/2 mild 120 wall
thanks guys
evan
 

ntsqd

Well-Known Member
#16
Yup, EP is extreme pressure grease. Not as difficult to find as it sounds. Wheel bearing grease, CV grease, and some equipment greases are usually rated EP.
When I was doing a tooling project (Metal Spinning) in school, all of the texts could find (all printed b4 '53) recommended using sheep lard because the high amino acid content. This spurred research into why that, as the local rendering place had just shipped off all of their animal lard. The amino acids bind the rest of the grease to the metal. Amino acid's are what make an EP grease an EP grease. Stuff like Slick 50 and Hyperlube are heavy on the amino's.

"Teach you all I know and you're still stupid"
-- Howdy Lee
 

BradM

Well-Known Member
#17
I have a JD^2 model 2 bender that we have used for about 8 years. It works great. I have one die (1 5/8) that the follow bar digs in a bit but the others work perfect. I usually make sure the tube is clean and either bend it dry or with some light grease like lithium. I haven't had any problems. I also saw one of the benders that Kreg sells, it looks cool. I think they are all similar in design and probably depends on the volume that you plan to use it as to which is best for you. The dies are the most expensive part. One nice thing I have found is that I know several other people that have the same bender. We all have different dies so we can loan to or borrow from one another if the need arises. With what I have and what they have, I think we have everything from 3/4 to 1 5/8 and some sizes with multiple radiuses.

Build 'em light, wind 'em tight
 

Stan

Well-Known Member
#19
I just found out this morning my bender is heading west, should be here on Monday or Tuesday. I would of loved to gone to Anaheim, but right now price and time is greatly affecting my habits.

"Rehabilitation begins at autopsy."
 

Stan

Well-Known Member
#20
I'm running a LIncoln SP-125 Plus and haven't had any issues with it, except for when I'm welding on the truck. Due to truck size, I can't pull in all the way, so I have to run the extension cord out, which is plugged into a bar. Even with power kicked down a couple of notches, after about 20 seconds of welding, the bar is resetting itself. I've done one passes on 1/4" plate with it and not a problem. As for the splatter, I haven't had any real issues with it. I'm running gas and dip the gun in anti-splatter gel before I start. As of right now, I wouldn't want to build a truck with it, but after I do some bumpers and nerf bars, I should be experienced enough to start on the truck, even if the wife doesn't think so, but that's another topic.

"Rehabilitation begins at autopsy."
 
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