BITD 2022 Updated UTV Rules

Mxrider909

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The Open UTV class is the only classes that allows aftermarket frame/chassis, but still with stock location pivot points.
Where did you read that?

"The OEM stock PIVOT POINTS must be MAINTAINED the stock chassis (frame) may be added to, for durability and strength, but must retain the stock width, length, configuration and design. Materials can be replaced. OEM UTV roll cages cannot be used. All joints must be attached to frame securely."

Seems that the pivot points and dimensions are the only real focus here.
 

dan200

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NIKAL

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Where did you read that?

"The OEM stock PIVOT POINTS must be MAINTAINED the stock chassis (frame) may be added to, for durability and strength, but must retain the stock width, length, configuration and design. Materials can be replaced. OEM UTV roll cages cannot be used. All joints must be attached to frame securely."

Seems that the pivot points and dimensions are the only real focus here.
Read the first sentace. Talks about OEM frame dimension must be used, but that any materials can be used. That means aftermarket frames built to OEM specs, like the Geiser chassis.

2022 Open UTV
UTV-20 CHASSIS (FRAME), BODY AND ROOF:
The OEM “stock chassis” (frame) dimensions must be used materials are open. The stock chassis (frame) is defined as, the main lower rails running along the inner sides of the UTV and the front and rear tubes that connect them.
 
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Mxrider909

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Read the first sentace. Talks about OEM frame dimension must be used, but that any materials can be used. That means aftermarket frames built to OEM specs, like the Geiser chassis.

2022 Open UTV
UTV-20 CHASSIS (FRAME), BODY AND ROOF:
The OEM “stock chassis” (frame) dimensions must be used materials are open. The stock chassis (frame) is defined as, the main lower rails running along the inner sides of the UTV and the front and rear tubes that connect them.

I just read dimensions..
 

NIKAL

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Legacy says no changes to their rules....................
Probably a desperate attempt to not piss anyone off and bring in entries. But in reality they are hurting the sport and the classes long term future, by not looking to support a single rules package.

And right now the teams will go where the manufactures support goes. If BITD keeps Polaris or Can Am sponsorship then the racers will race there. Same with Score.
 

10 shot

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I think ppl that want a car that will last more than a season and have a frame you can build on that is not 02 thin is not cheating it just makes sense. The wheelbase and pivot points tho must remain in factory position. This is the problem with having a factory car that is not really a race car but built as a fun car from the factory and trying to make it a race car. Not the ideal situation.
 

NIKAL

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I think ppl that want a car that will last more than a season and have a frame you can build on that is not 02 thin is not cheating it just makes sense. The wheelbase and pivot points tho must remain in factory position. This is the problem with having a factory car that is not really a race car but built as a fun car from the factory and trying to make it a race car. Not the ideal situation.
Allot of cars last several years or longer. A girl named Eva Star is racing one of Jagged X’s old 2014, 2 seat XP1000 at D38 and Code and it’s still running strong. When Justin @ Shock Therapy was trying to justify his Geiser frame, several Can Am racers chimed in on his live show saying they are not having issues with their frames. The guys at S3 make a full weld in X3 frame strength kit. Plus after a few years your going want to build a new one as this class is based off a manufacture that continues to evolve and build new models. If you want a 20 year old car that can still be competitive, get in class 1600.

The two biggest issues with allowing aftermarket frames, is controlling OEM specs. Promoters like Dave Cole and a few more don’t want to be the rules police, and have to do pre & post race inspections. You would have to have jigs to make sure the cars are built to specs.
Two, why don’t you see Polaris & Can Am sponsoring teams in the Open/Unlimited class? Because they want to support teams building off their current platform. The more you take away from the OEM’s the less they might feel they need to support the series or sport.

Maybe the racers need to ask the manufactures to build a thicker walled frame? If the manufactures are here to learn, they should learning that .050 or .065 is to thin.
 

JerryB

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Probably a desperate attempt to not piss anyone off and bring in entries. But in reality they are hurting the sport and the classes long term future, by not looking to support a single rules package.

And right now the teams will go where the manufactures support goes. If BITD keeps Polaris or Can Am sponsorship then the racers will race there. Same with Score.
Couldn't disagree more. Dave Cole was working on a project to get promoters on the same page with a more consistent rules package, deadline for racer submissions/suggestions was july 31st......correct me if I'm wrong but I believe that's today. Which leads me to 1 of 2 conclusions:

1. The call for suggestions to create standardized rules was smoke and mirrors.
2. Bitd is actually the one hurting the sport and is refusing to play nice in the sandbox. The new bitd rules were not written overnight, the details and amount of changes tell me they've been developed over a significant amount of time, pre Dave's apparent attempt to get all promoters on the same page. (So are they giving the finger to everyone else?)

Everyone can form their own opinion as to which it is. Bitd's rule changes have essentially disqualified some cars from being legal or competitive in another series if a racer chooses to move around... just to note a few major changes listed, allowing to change some engine internals/no sealing, 15 gallon max fuel cell, speed governor at 85mph, the aftermarket chassis, no aftermarket alternator, just to name a few changes in various classes. Rules are on their website if you want to take the time to read them.

This will ultimately come down to racers have a choice where they spend their money. As I've said previously, we decide the number of entries at any given event with our pocket books as we are the customer. I don't think its fair to say Legacy is hurting the sport by trying to keep the rules consistent with what it's been. If anything, bitd has hurt the class and racers by consistently being inconsistent.
 

NIKAL

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Couldn't disagree more. Dave Cole was working on a project to get promoters on the same page with a more consistent rules package, deadline for racer submissions/suggestions was july 31st......correct me if I'm wrong but I believe that's today. Which leads me to 1 of 2 conclusions:

1. The call for suggestions to create standardized rules was smoke and mirrors.
2. Bitd is actually the one hurting the sport and is refusing to play nice in the sandbox. The new bitd rules were not written overnight, the details and amount of changes tell me they've been developed over a significant amount of time, pre Dave's apparent attempt to get all promoters on the same page. (So are they giving the finger to everyone else?)

Everyone can form their own opinion as to which it is. Bitd's rule changes have essentially disqualified some cars from being legal or competitive in another series if a racer chooses to move around... just to note a few major changes listed, allowing to change some engine internals/no sealing, 15 gallon max fuel cell, speed governor at 85mph, the aftermarket chassis, no aftermarket alternator, just to name a few changes in various classes. Rules are on their website if you want to take the time to read them.

This will ultimately come down to racers have a choice where they spend their money. As I've said previously, we decide the number of entries at any given event with our pocket books as we are the customer. I don't think its fair to say Legacy is hurting the sport by trying to keep the rules consistent with what it's been. If anything, bitd has hurt the class and racers by consistently being inconsistent.
I’ve read every 2022 BITD UTV class rules. While I’ve never agreed with how BITD ran their rules or who did it and the conflict.
I can say what they have now is going in the right direction with or without Dave. I respect Dave immensely. I was happy to see him take the lead on getting this worked out, but it sounds like BITD was already working on this. I will say allot of Dave’s preliminary rule ideas were more suited for his series, and not all series. And Dave has said he’s not into tech inspections or tech rules enforcement.

Your right the BITD rules were not written overnight and we’re probably in it’s 3 revision when Dave started to organize this. BITD was probably like, sorry Dave we are months into this and not stopping to see if we can herd cats over the next 5 months. Plus I’d bet you BITD was speaking to several manufactures asking what they want to see and to appease them, as it’s ultimately their class, not Scores, BITD or Legacy’s. If the other series are wanting unity, they can adopt BITD 2022 rules. They really are the #1 UTV race series. Let’s see who wants to follow?

Most of the changes you spoke about are rules for the “Super Stock” class. 15 gal cell, 85 mph, no aftermarket Alternator, all Super Stock class rules, and good ones if you ask me. None of those rules apply to the other UTV classes. And the aftermarket frame, and keeping them out of the two Pro Production classes was another good thing. You want to run an aftermarket chassis, run the Open class. Enough people want aftermarket chassis, then that class will grow and be awesome. And you don’t have to have an aftermarket chassis to run the class either, so it does not eliminate anyone running a stock frame that wants to run Open. The Open class is a catch all for those who chose to not meet the 2022 Production rules. Or want to build beyond the Pro Production class rules.

At some point you have to reel back the rules or gray areas that have been ignored or abused to control the future of the sport. And yes your going to make some racers unhappy, but if you did it last year or two years from now, there will always be a few that it hurts. But several of those cars could be fixed to be back in Production or moved into an Open or Unlimited class.

And I still say that because Legacy has made it clear they are not considering or changing any rules tells me they are not talking to Dave, and his attempt to structure the class. So if they are not willing to work with Dave or look at following BITD 2022 rules, again tells me Legacy “might” be the ones as you say “Giving the finger to everyone else!”
 

10 shot

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Allot of cars last several years or longer. A girl named Eva Star is racing one of Jagged X’s old 2014, 2 seat XP1000 at D38 and Code and it’s still running strong. When Justin @ Shock Therapy was trying to justify his Geiser frame, several Can Am racers chimed in on his live show saying they are not having issues with their frames. The guys at S3 make a full weld in X3 frame strength kit. Plus after a few years your going want to build a new one as this class is based off a manufacture that continues to evolve and build new models. If you want a 20 year old car that can still be competitive, get in class 1600.

The two biggest issues with allowing aftermarket frames, is controlling OEM specs. Promoters like Dave Cole and a few more don’t want to be the rules police, and have to do pre & post race inspections. You would have to have jigs to make sure the cars are built to specs.
Two, why don’t you see Polaris & Can Am sponsoring teams in the Open/Unlimited class? Because they want to support teams building off their current platform. The more you take away from the OEM’s the less they might feel they need to support the series or sport.

Maybe the racers need to ask the manufactures to build a thicker walled frame? If the manufactures are here to learn, they should learning that .050 or .065 is to thin.
They are building play cars for the masses not race cars. Fall apart in a few years is good for the manufacturer to sell more units. Race cars probably do not make up 1% of there sales as the Polaris ranger out sells the rzr across the board nationally.
 

Goober

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Sportsman
Stock
Pro NA
Pro Turbo
Unlimited
Open

Seems pretty similar to the purposed KOH classes other than the engine size limits.
Unlimited and Open sound like the same ?
 

sand shark

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Allot of cars last several years or longer. A girl named Eva Star is racing one of Jagged X’s old 2014, 2 seat XP1000 at D38 and Code and it’s still running strong. When Justin @ Shock Therapy was trying to justify his Geiser frame, several Can Am racers chimed in on his live show saying they are not having issues with their frames. The guys at S3 make a full weld in X3 frame strength kit. Plus after a few years your going want to build a new one as this class is based off a manufacture that continues to evolve and build new models. If you want a 20 year old car that can still be competitive, get in class 1600.

The two biggest issues with allowing aftermarket frames, is controlling OEM specs. Promoters like Dave Cole and a few more don’t want to be the rules police, and have to do pre & post race inspections. You would have to have jigs to make sure the cars are built to specs.
Two, why don’t you see Polaris & Can Am sponsoring teams in the Open/Unlimited class? Because they want to support teams building off their current platform. The more you take away from the OEM’s the less they might feel they need to support the series or sport.

Maybe the racers need to ask the manufactures to build a thicker walled frame? If the manufactures are here to learn, they should learning that .050 or .065 is to thin.

Wayne Matlock is racing in the unlimited class in Score. Mostly likely because he was supposed to be in the new XP Pro.
 

desertspeed

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This is another example of why racing promotors/series should not get involved in determining class rules (obviously other than standard safety rules). Each class should have a class rep/coalition that sets the rules as determined by the racers in that class. That would standardize all classes across all racing orgs. It would remove a huge amount of work/hassle for the promotors. Similar to how Jeepspeed works. I have never understood why this isn't more common.
 

Dave Cole 4454

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This is another example of why racing promotors/series should not get involved in determining class rules (obviously other than standard safety rules). Each class should have a class rep/coalition that sets the rules as determined by the racers in that class. That would standardize all classes across all racing orgs. It would remove a huge amount of work/hassle for the promotors. Similar to how Jeepspeed works. I have never understood why this isn't more common.

So you want to let the class rules be decided by a group vote of racers? Lol. Ok
 

Rcamp99

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I’ve read every 2022 BITD UTV class rules. While I’ve never agreed with how BITD ran their rules or who did it and the conflict.
I can say what they have now is going in the right direction with or without Dave. I respect Dave immensely. I was happy to see him take the lead on getting this worked out, but it sounds like BITD was already working on this. I will say allot of Dave’s preliminary rule ideas were more suited for his series, and not all series. And Dave has said he’s not into tech inspections or tech rules enforcement.

Your right the BITD rules were not written overnight and we’re probably in it’s 3 revision when Dave started to organize this. BITD was probably like, sorry Dave we are months into this and not stopping to see if we can herd cats over the next 5 months. Plus I’d bet you BITD was speaking to several manufactures asking what they want to see and to appease them, as it’s ultimately their class, not Scores, BITD or Legacy’s. If the other series are wanting unity, they can adopt BITD 2022 rules. They really are the #1 UTV race series. Let’s see who wants to follow?

Most of the changes you spoke about are rules for the “Super Stock” class. 15 gal cell, 85 mph, no aftermarket Alternator, all Super Stock class rules, and good ones if you ask me. None of those rules apply to the other UTV classes. And the aftermarket frame, and keeping them out of the two Pro Production classes was another good thing. You want to run an aftermarket chassis, run the Open class. Enough people want aftermarket chassis, then that class will grow and be awesome. And you don’t have to have an aftermarket chassis to run the class either, so it does not eliminate anyone running a stock frame that wants to run Open. The Open class is a catch all for those who chose to not meet the 2022 Production rules. Or want to build beyond the Pro Production class rules.

At some point you have to reel back the rules or gray areas that have been ignored or abused to control the future of the sport. And yes your going to make some racers unhappy, but if you did it last year or two years from now, there will always be a few that it hurts. But several of those cars could be fixed to be back in Production or moved into an Open or Unlimited class.

And I still say that because Legacy has made it clear they are not considering or changing any rules tells me they are not talking to Dave, and his attempt to structure the class. So if they are not willing to work with Dave or look at following BITD 2022 rules, again tells me Legacy “might” be the ones as you say “Giving the finger to everyone else!”
Do You think Dave reached out to anyone? @Dave Cole 4454 did you call Donald, or Jeff, or anyone to discuss the unified rules?
 

10 shot

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The main problem with the utv class is that the factory car itself changes so often it's hard to keep up with current rules. It's like every year its something new to deal with. When building a purpose built car you build it to the rules from scratch but with the utv it is a play car your trying to fit in a class. Wait till the speed car hits the field in 5 years 🤣
 

desertspeed

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So you want to let the class rules be decided by a group vote of racers? Lol. Ok
Yes- by an elected or chosen representative/group for the class who understand the class better than any promotor can (unless that promotor has also raced that class). And I am not saying there should be a firewall between the class reps and the promotors, I am just suggesting that it would be a hell of a lot easier for you (as a promotor) to have a single person come to you representing a whole class to discuss the class rules, and be responsible for enforcing those rules. Also, if you (as a promotor) wanted to institute changes to a class for whatever reason, it would be easier to go to a single class rep and explain what you want to do and why, rather than dealing with dozens of individual racers all with different viewpoints.

I love what you have done/are doing to improve the sport but I have been desert racing for over 20 years and class rules/issues like this as the sport evolves have been the biggest single detriment to racing outside of land use issues.
 
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