BITD Silver State 300 April 28th-30th

[Total Loss]

And probably 99% of the time everyone WILL survive. But god forbid the one time they don’t.

It happens. Races continue.
I was getting ready for my stint in SF on the bike when Weatherman got on the radio with a code red fatality from a bike...Carl Renezeder ran over a loopy David Bills who wrecked and was wandering around on the course...not Carl's fault but Bob was pissed on the radio and spilled all the beans...wife was standing next to me...I assured her I knew what I was doing and completed my stint...having to move over for a few TTs and 1s.

It happens...very sad but it's the risk we take.

That being said...I wouldn't do it today even if I was still in my prime...too many GPS racers in blinding dust hauling A.

 

[J Prich]

It happens. Races continue.
I was getting ready for my stint in SF on the bike when Weatherman got on the radio with a code red fatality from a bike...Carl Renezeder ran over a loopy David Bills who wrecked and was wandering around on the course...not Carl's fault but Bob was pissed on the radio and spilled all the beans...wife was standing next to me...I assured her I knew what I was doing and completed my stint...having to move over for a few TTs and 1s.

It happens...very sad but it's the risk we take.

That being said...I wouldn't do it today even if I was still in my prime...too many GPS racers in blinding dust hauling A.

Here’s to hoping that we’ll always be able to say “It happens. Races continue.” every time “it” happens.

 

[MTPyle]

UTV in front is to blame?
Who is at fault in rear-end collisions typically?

Wouldn’t changing a flat while being passed by a UTV put you in the same situation?

Genuine questions.

With a light UTV starting in front of us we could not pass them safely. So we were stuck in the dust until
We took risk of our own to get around. That is what caused the dangerous situation.

If it would have been a C1 or 6100 in front of us we could charge to their bumper and make the pass without the risk of taking them out.

Yes having a problem on course and getting passed puts you way behind and your day is basically done. Totally different scenario than starting that way and being forced to push thru the UTV to hold or improve your position with the trucks that didn’t start behind a UTV. With a slower UTV blocking you while the trucks ahead of the UTV are checking out. That’s a penalty not of your doing but the starting order.

Sure it’s not a problem if you don’t care what what happens to the UTV. That was before you told us that it’s OK to crash or kill someone because they signed a waiver and passed safety inspection. They understood the risk. They are “men”

Mike

 

[EasyE]

With a slower UTV blocking you while the trucks ahead of the UTV are checking out. That’s a penalty not of your doing but the starting order.


Mike

BUT it kind of is your doing. You obviously ended up behind them at the start of Day2 for a reason. All they did was essentially stop mid-race and "start" again on day 2. You lost the advantage of starting in front of lightweight, "slower" vehicles and that is now your race to deal with. You created additional layers to your race and that included not barreling through slower cars to regain your course position. Not attacking you, but in this case no one else created that situation for you.

 

[MTPyle]

BUT it kind of is your doing. You obviously ended up behind them at the start of Day2 for a reason. All they did was essentially stop mid-race and "start" again on day 2. You lost the advantage of starting in front of lightweight, "slower" vehicles and that is now your race to deal with. You created additional layers to your race and that included not barreling through slower cars to regain your course position. Not attacking you, but in this case no one else created that situation for you.

Never got passed by a UTV. They re racked day 2 on corrected time and mixed classes.

Why didn’t the bikes get mixed in and start day 2 based on corrected time. I think a bike was in the top 3. They should have started with the TT’s, right? No because they could get killed. Why chose to create a unsafe scenario if you don’t have to?

You guys are foolish if you think it makes sense to “start” small vehicles with large vehicles. End of story.

Mike

 

[EasyE]

Never said that dude..but ok.

 

[MTPyle]

Never said that dude..but ok.

But you did say that we caused the scenario that put others in danger. But we didn’t. We didn’t get passed by a UTV.

Your point was in support of how Legacy re racked mixing classes. At least that’s how it seemed.

It was not like stopping mid race and re starting. That would keep the UTV’s behind us.

My point is that the re rack and mix of weights did cause a unsafe scenario that almost got someone killed. Period. I know the details as it happened to us.

Mike

 

[EasyE]

Fair enough. I’ll agree the rerack probably wasn’t the best idea. You still went slower than a few UTV to that point. Lol
You’ve complained about how they hold you up and how it’s a UTVs fault when we don’t immediately move which sometimes would require endangering our own race when we’re upfront in our class and you’re not.
Im just saying don’t complain when “slower” cars become a situation for you when you’re not on pace or have issues.
EDIT: Before you get offended, I don't mean "you" as you personally @MTPyle . Just any heavy vehicle behind a lighter one.

 

[MTPyle]

Fair enough. I’ll agree the rerack probably wasn’t the best idea. You still went slower than a few UTV to that point. Lol
You’ve complained about how they hold you up and how it’s a UTVs fault when we don’t immediately move which sometimes would require endangering our own race when we’re upfront in our class and you’re not.
Im just saying don’t complain when “slower” cars become a situation for you when you’re not on pace or have issues.

I have never “complained” about normal races where we get behind. It sucks but yes that’s our own doing. Happens all the time and for sure wouid not complain to the org about that. In this case it wasn’t our doing. And Donald agreed it was a bad idea to re rack. Especially given what almost happened because of it.

I think it’s OK to be frustrated when you get stuck behind a light buggy and you won’t put them in danger so you back off and your race is basically over.

My point is why do that to someone at the start?

Mike

 

[EasyE]

I have never “complained” about normal races where we get behind. It sucks but yes that’s our own doing. Happens all the time and for sure wouid not complain to the org about that. In this case it wasn’t our doing. And Donald agreed it was a bad idea to re rack. Especially given what almost happened because of it.

I think it’s OK to be frustrated when you get stuck behind a light buggy and you won’t put them in danger so you back off and your race is basically over.

My point is why do that to someone at the start?

Mike

I don't have the time to go back and look, but you and I have had this conversation before and you 100% have complained that UTVs "hold us up"...and don't immediately move over. And above you just said "stuck in their dust", "UTV blocking you".. frustrated/complaining same thing LOL..

 

[MTPyle]

I don't have the time to go back and look, but you and I have had this conversation before and you 100% have complained that UTVs "hold us up"...and don't immediately move over. And above you just said "stuck in their dust", "UTV blocking you".. frustrated/complaining same thing LOL..

You are right. I have been frustrated and I am sure have expressed that frustration about being stuck behind UTV and C10. In fact for me it’s one of the most frustrating things about this sport.

But I totally understand the difference between when it’s my fault and when it’s the orgs fault.

Bottom line is starting a race with light with heavy mixed in is a bad idea, period. Nobody will change my mind on that. I am like a liberal that thinks EV’s are saving the planet. Don’t even try to change my mind. Haha

Mike

 

[michael.gonzalez]

With a light UTV starting in front of us we could not pass them safely. So we were stuck in the dust until
We took risk of our own to get around. That is what caused the dangerous situation.

And if you rear ended then, it would be the orgs fault and not yours? Please explain.

If it would have been a C1 or 6100 in front of us we could charge to their bumper and make the pass without the risk of taking them out.

You can “charge” and pass a UTV. The risk of hitting them/colliding is on you and your ability to safely pass another vehicle, regardless of class or size.

Sure it’s not a problem if you don’t care what what happens to the UTV. That was before you told us that it’s OK to crash or kill someone because they signed a waiver and passed safety inspection. They understood the risk. They are “men”

Ok, to kill someone? Man, that’s taking it way too far. Deaths happen in off-road racing as in all forms of racing, that’s just a fact. But killing someone with intent or negligence of life is another thing.

 

[MTPyle]

MG

I know I said this before but no point in arguing with you. You don’t get my position and I don’t think it’s possible to move you from your position.

So it is what it is. I am just glad you are not responsible for running a race and making the decisions that shape safety for others.

Good luck when you race your Speed UTV in Class 1.

Mike

 

[michael.gonzalez]

So now you are saying it’s up to the orgs to provide safety through rules?

What happened to man up? Who needs helmets? I mean you signed a waiver accepting the risk.

Helmets are a safety rule regardless of class. Nice deflection.

It’s simple. If i Start behind a 6100 I know I can nerf them and it’s all good. I can charge thru the dust and if I hit the back of a 6100 or even Class 1 we will all be OK.

That’s a dangerous assumption. Things aren’t always going to be “OK” just because it’s a Class 1 or 6100 you are “charging into”.

They are made for it. I have done so many times.

You have done so because the class allows nerfing, that’s part of being the Unlimited class.

Not true with a UTV. If I hit a UTV or light buggy with a 30mph speed difference it will most likely end the day for the Light buggy and may be worse.

30mph difference is a COLLISION, regardless of class. I hope you have never “nerfed” someone with a 30mph difference, and I certainly hope you won’t continue to do so many times.

So because of those facts above it changes the situation. I can not charge Thru the dust.

Again, dangerous to assume you CAN charge through the dust without a UTV ahead. You should always drive with caution in the dust, you never know what is ahead.

So I have to play conservative and take my own risk to make sure we don’t hurt or end the day of a racer.

I would hope you always make sure you don’t hurt or end the day of a racer when driving through dust, regardless of class.

It’s a easy risk to solve.

Why wouldn’t we take the easy risk off the table?

So you’d drop out when passed by a lighter vehicle?

man do I want to start behind MG in a UTV with my 6100 and charge blind up his ass and see what happens.

Just wanted to quote this, haven’t seen this side of you.


And this isn’t about me. This is about making sure a minimum weight rule is NOT added to Class 1/1500.

 

[MTPyle]

MG

You are arguing that there is no need to reduce this risk and you are all for allowing light vehicles to start with heavy vehicles.

That’s your position. I think you have made it clear.

You talked down to the ones that voice the concern. You have said in many ways that myself and others are wanting to reduce a risk that is not a risk and racing is risky.

You took a long time to break those comments up and take out of context. Not sure why.

I will not keep playing. Again we get your position. Trying to deflect and twist what I am saying won’t change your position.

I have been nerfed at a major speed difference and I was OK. It banged up our truck pretty bad but it took it. That same hit from that TT would have seriously damaged a UTV. Short story was we had a dash indicator error and were moving slow on a straight away and a TT came full speed into me because he thought I was moving faster. It was a huge hit.

I speak from my own experience. You can choose to disregard my experience.

Mike

 

[Argentino]

That's a weird sexual fantasy you guys are having there, but on the subject of racing and passing etc...

If you wanted to deter contacts, we could simply implement a gentleman's agreement that says that if you destroy my race car, you pay for my race car. Cameras to prove your claim.

 

[michael.gonzalez]

MG

You are arguing that there is no need to reduce this risk and you are all for allowing light vehicles to start with heavy vehicles.

Wrong. I’m all for allowing Class 1/1500 to start with TT. Whatever their weights may be.

 

[Bro_Gill]

I have never “complained” about normal races where we get behind. It sucks but yes that’s our own doing. Happens all the time and for sure wouid not complain to the org about that. In this case it wasn’t our doing. And Donald agreed it was a bad idea to re rack. Especially given what almost happened because of it.

I think it’s OK to be frustrated when you get stuck behind a light buggy and you won’t put them in danger so you back off and your race is basically over.

My point is why do that to someone at the start?

Mike

The 10 cars in CalCity. Mike, you complained about the 10 cars that got around you too when you guys had issues and blamed them for your results. Get over it already.

 

[MTPyle]

The 10 cars in CalCity. Mike, you complained about the 10 cars that got around you too when you guys had issues and blamed them for your results. Get over it already.

Ok

LOL. I share everything and a big part of racing desert racing is courses that you can’t pass on and being stuck behind vehicles. That’s just part of what we do.

Actually CalCity I was way more pissed about being held up by slow 6100 trucks that the boys could not get around. There was almost nowhere to pass. At the end of the race I got in a argument with a 6100. Didn’t even take the time to talk to class 10. They did nothing wrong. They passed us while we were on our side. That’s our fault.

But the mixing of light buggies and heavy trucks did effect the outcome of the race.

What an odd social thing that if you share all of your experiences people will say you are complaining and to get over it.

Wonder why nobody shares anything on here. LOL. Or if they do they better keep it all positive and not “complain”

Mike

 

[MTPyle]

I wonder how many of you guys that are saying it’s OK to start light buggies and heavy metal together have ever spent $30k of your own money to get to a race and have the race org design the start where you are stuck behind a light buggy that you can’t hit, while other trucks are not.

I bet if you guys put your money, time, and work into that effort you might complain also. LOL

You think if NASCAR allowed a open wheel formula car to qualify and start where they qualified in a race would be OK? Just tell those guys that have to figure out how to get around a car they can’t touch to get over it, stop complaining.

This has to be the dumbest argument on RDC ever. No reason to “start” light with heavy.

Mike