Buggy rearend education???

atomicjoe23

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I've just started to really get into the buggies. . .a LOT!!! but I don't really know a whole lot bout them. . .I mean the front suspension is basically the same between 2WD trucks and 2WD buggies, but the rear is a lot different. .. trucks use a solid axle an engine/transmission with a driveshaft and the buggies generally are running IRS with a transaxle and rear (or mid) engine with CV's etc, etc, etc. . .

. . .I could try a search but I don't even know where to start with what to put into the search function. . .

. . .anyone have any good suggestion about where to start learning more about buggy rearends. . .and designing the trailing arms, etc.

Thanks!!!
 

Giant Geoff

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Joel, Study the stock parts and just enlarge them. The best way to learn is by practical, hands on experience.

Spend time and research. Are you a trans plate from California? What’s with the instant gratification?

We don’t have drive thru fab. Schools down here yet. Haha
 

atomicjoe23

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Yeah. . .transplant from So-Cal via Hawaii. . .

I don't want intant gratification. . .I just wanna know where to start looking. . .I like to read up on the stuff on my own. . .and I agree with the hands on education. . .

. . .the stock parts??? What should I be looking for??? I'm more than happy to start hitting up the junkyards if I knew what I was looking for. . .
 

sickdayz

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I've just started to really get into the buggies. . .a LOT!!! but I don't really know a whole lot bout them. . .I mean the front suspension is basically the same between 2WD trucks and 2WD buggies, but the rear is a lot different. .. trucks use a solid axle an engine/transmission with a driveshaft and the buggies generally are running IRS with a transaxle and rear (or mid) engine with CV's etc, etc, etc. . .

. . .I could try a search but I don't even know where to start with what to put into the search function. . .

. . .anyone have any good suggestion about where to start learning more about buggy rearends. . .and designing the trailing arms, etc.

Thanks!!!

I would suggest searching this site and the http://www.glamisdunes.com site. These are probable the 2 sites with the most information. From there, they will have links to other sites in the threads…
 

FullsizeFun

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Get the Book "Baja Bugs & Buggies" by Jeff Hibbard. This is the best reading material to learn the basics. has a lot of pictures too.
 

07FJRog

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Get the Book "Baja Bugs & Buggies" by Jeff Hibbard. This is the best reading material to learn the basics. has a lot of pictures too.

lol, I have that book, and used info for my first buggy build also!!. Now I am building my 4th. I have the chassis (frame) made, then proceed with the rest.

VW based transaxles is what to "search for" like 002, 091 (bus ones) or type 1 ( beetle ones) swing or IRS axles.
 

FullsizeFun

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Yeah, I tell everybody that is just starting out to read that book cover to cover. I read it when i was about 14 haha
 

DBMETALWORX

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get the book "baja bugs & buggies" by jeff hibbard. This is the best reading material to learn the basics. Has a lot of pictures too.

i read this book 20 yrs ago, i think i memorized it cover to cover...lots of great info, although alot is outdated now it's still useful. I don't recall anything on a-arm frontends.
 

Zac Reish

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go to the desertrides.com then to the forum then to buggies and vw's you will find a ton of buggy builds and pictures of suspension.
 

atomicjoe23

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Thanks Zac. . .tons of good suggestion guys this is exactly what I needed. . .just needed to know where to start looking and what it was I was looking for!!!
 

standfast

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Not sure what you are looking for exactly but some good starting info.

You want your rear suspesnion to have camber gain. You accomplish this by runnin the trailing arm pivot line slightly angled from the rear transom tube. 7-8 degrees is normal this also creates a bit of toe in gain. This allows the CV to roll up and keep it within it's normal operating range at full bump which is important since that is where you have nearly 100% traction.

You also wanna build about 1 degree of neg. camber at ride height into the trailing arm to start with.

The outer hub centerline should be further back than your transmission CV output flanges so that when the trailing arm swings down it ends up inline with the transmission output instead of way in front. This will allow you the most possible droop travel out of your CV's since it will only be cutting the angle down instead of forward and down...

Your pivots can be a combination of things. Heims,Bushings, uniball's... 2 heims will give the most adjustability and if sized properly will work fine on smaller cars. Another good setup would be a uniball inner and a heim outer. Still lots of adjustment there. It is often done with a heim and then a bushing but if you make to much adjustment for toe you will put lots of pressure on the bushing and have increased wear and short lived bushings.

You will notice buggy rear suspension is all based around CV limits. Keeping your axles as long as possible is a major goal as this will give more travel by creating less CV angle as your suspension cycles. Narrow flange to flange on the tranmission and outboard hubs or micro stubs are desireable for getting those axles long.

Thats just some basics off the top of my head. Post up if you other questions and we can try to help.
 

DBMETALWORX

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not sure what you are looking for exactly but some good starting info.

You want your rear suspesnion to have camber gain. You accomplish this by runnin the trailing arm pivot line slightly angled from the rear transom tube. 7-8 degrees is normal this also creates a bit of toe in gain. This allows the cv to roll up and keep it within it's normal operating range at full bump which is important since that is where you have nearly 100% traction.

You also wanna build about 1 degree of neg. Camber at ride height into the trailing arm to start with.

The outer hub centerline should be further back than your transmission cv output flanges so that when the trailing arm swings down it ends up inline with the transmission output instead of way in front. This will allow you the most possible droop travel out of your cv's since it will only be cutting the angle down instead of forward and down...

Your pivots can be a combination of things. Heims,bushings, uniball's... 2 heims will give the most adjustability and if sized properly will work fine on smaller cars. Another good setup would be a uniball inner and a heim outer. Still lots of adjustment there. It is often done with a heim and then a bushing but if you make to much adjustment for toe you will put lots of pressure on the bushing and have increased wear and short lived bushings.

You will notice buggy rear suspension is all based around cv limits. Keeping your axles as long as possible is a major goal as this will give more travel by creating less cv angle as your suspension cycles. Narrow flange to flange on the tranmission and outboard hubs or micro stubs are desireable for getting those axles long.

Thats just some basics off the top of my head. Post up if you other questions and we can try to help.

yeah we run 7 degrees on on our rear torsion tube [transom]. We set camber @ 1.5 degrees, and .125"-.250" toe in. With tataum midboard hubs... We're working on our own hub set up.. Hopefully we'll have them ready for parker, on our new car..
 

atomicjoe23

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OK since I don't know a lot about buggy terminology yet I want to make sure that I'm understanding correctly. . .


You want your rear suspesnion to have camber gain. You accomplish this by runnin the trailing arm pivot line slightly angled from the rear transom tube. 7-8 degrees is normal this also creates a bit of toe in gain. This allows the CV to roll up and keep it within it's normal operating range at full bump which is important since that is where you have nearly 100% traction.

What is the transom tube??? I know what camber gain is so I'm assuming this means that the outer pivot point is slightly above the inner pivot point?

yeah we run 7 degrees on on our rear torsion tube [transom]. We set camber @ 1.5 degrees, and .125"-.250" toe in. With tataum midboard hubs... We're working on our own hub set up.. Hopefully we'll have them ready for parker, on our new car..

I'm assuming transom tube and torsion tube are the same thing?

I understand the rest. . .

Thanks!
 

standfast

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The transom is the tube that goes across that the trailing arms attach to. You can put this 7 or 8 degrees in this tube instead of making different length of mounts as well to accomplish the same thing.


The camber gain is not from them being mounted at different heights. It is just from them pivoting on that kicked out angle. You can see this on any stock VW trailing arm.

Another you will see that just came to mind is people are starting try to get the TA pivots closer to the same level as the trans CV outputs. Meaning the pivots are higher than the bottom of the car. This is to maximize available plunge I believe. Not sure what else it accomplishes.
 
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