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Can dying classes be revived?

cynicwanderer

Well-Known Member
I can't find the current entry fees on bitd.com for V2R, since they pulled the form and online registration is closed, However, entry fees are a big deal for me and one reason I still race motos instead of moving to a steering wheel class. even if I could maybe justify buying a used Class 9 or 1600 buggy, paying huge entry fees to race it is going to limit how many races I can attend. if I buy a used stock UTV and prep it, it's even less events. not everyone who has passion for racing has deep pockets, but it is clear that the big races now cater to those who do. at least BITD still has reasonable entry fees for motos, but once those start going up to the level of SCORE, I will just become a spectator.
 

offroadracer516

Well-Known Member
It goes in when you show up to registration just like every other class and racer does. What is the incentive for SCORE or BITD to cut entry fees in half (or more) just attract certain classes to bring back from the dead? Would it be nice? Absolutely! But they wouldn’t make any money that way and they are a business and their races cost way more to put on than the lower profile events and we all know that. Should the TT guys be expected to subsidize those entry fees? Maybe they can afford it but does that make it right? Maybe if Bernie wins in 2020.

What needs to happen to bring back the VW classes is get a sponsor on board to subsidize entry fees, add bonuses and hopefully get those guys back out racing. Look how well JeepSpeed works. General Tire sponsors the class and keeps the entry fees reasonable for all BITD races, funny they’re also the official tire of BITD. So why don’t all the VW racers get together and approach a sponsor and make this happen? BITD has a good history of working with racers and classes to get people out to race. SCORE may be a different story but there are things that can be done to promote racing these cars again.
I don't agree. BITD races in laughlin just like SNORE. But it cost twice as much to do BITD and you get literally no bonus at all. One is for profit. The other is put on by racers for the racers. Its no wonder these classes are flourishing in the latter.
 

nimrod

KOOK!
A newbie can for 30k all in for a new utv race ready go race AMA district 38 all year with big fields for cheap. Like dirt cheap compared to the other desert orgs.
He can tow out to plaster city Friday night and sleep in a tent with 1 or 2 guys and be back at work Monday morning. He didn’t pay for a hotel and miss a bunch of work.
When the newbie with limited tools needs work done he takes his utv to the dealer and gets an estimate and repairs done in a timely manner. He didn’t buy a garage full of tools or even take a welding class at the local city college or drop it off at the prep guy who will take who knows how long and charge how much???

I’m a buggy dork but the utv is a great way for newbies to get into the sport.
In everything the market speaks, you can’t argue with the numbers.
 

jon coleman

Well-Known Member
real racers( minus kids of course) find a way to get on the starting line, you eat balonga sandwiches, sleep on the tow trailor u borrowed, collect cans for gas, ect, i ve heard that line before, 'pfffff, d38 utv?, im planing on score tt', i ask ' really?, what have u raced?', A: 'nothing yet, but those other " lower" classes are soo for the peasants'....
 

JHUT_553

Active Member
i have heard of this UTV racing thats been going on in CAL City for a little bit. a group of guys that i work with race distric 37 (dirt bike guy) say that this group is out there putting this race series together so to what nimrod is talking about maybe its this same group and they have all age groups from kids to adutls racing. but i can say other than the people at work talk about it nothing other.
 

J Prich

Well-Known Member
Rad how RDC can take a conversation about how to keep old classes alive and turn it in to petty arguments about UTV's vs the World, SNORE vs BITD, etc.
 

kyle_pc_75

Well-Known Member
What needs to happen to bring back the VW classes is get a sponsor on board to subsidize entry fees, add bonuses and hopefully get those guys back out racing. Look how well JeepSpeed works. General Tire sponsors the class and keeps the entry fees reasonable for all BITD races, funny they’re also the official tire of BITD. So why don’t all the VW racers get together and approach a sponsor and make this happen? BITD has a good history of working with racers and classes to get people out to race. SCORE may be a different story but there are things that can be done to promote racing these cars again.
So true. When I ran BOR (I still help out a lot), I considered myself an enabler more than a promoter. I never had any skin in the game other than the personal money and time I spent putting on races. There was no income for me as I wasn't the owner or a paid employee, it was all about being with family and keeping racing alive in Utah cause I love it and it's nice when it's close to home. Occasionally I got some seat time.

I don't think that BOR itself has any financial incentive to encourage the older classes, nor does any other org. Entry fees are entry fees, BOR is an "after hours" org, no full time staff, all races run by the racers. We're just trying to stay alive, so chasing sponsor money and keeping sponsors happy is not a viable option unless someone takes that on. Getting permits, insurance, and handling logistics, that's enough for the two core staff members to handle.

But sponsorship opportunities are there, and I'll use Class 9 as an example because it's our biggest "vintage" class. Blackline Racing is a huge local ACVW shop that routinely races on the Salt, and have shown support for BOR in the past. Someone just needs to chase that and then ensure the relationship with either the Class or BOR has someone tending it so the sponsor gets something in return. What would make it worthwhile for the sponsors, I had no clue. That's where I struggled and lost energy.

There's something of a revival going on in BOR with the Class 9's (which means we have five of them lol), and I think us recently lowering the entry fees to what they are for SXS's, and lower than the bigger trucks and buggies helped, but it was going on before that. It's just guys (younger and older) who want to race vintage classes using mostly home-built stuff. Sponsorships could only help...that's the case with any racer, right?
 

Racerinside

Well-Known Member
My thoughts on bringing the "dying classes" back in the big races is to seperate the big boys main event and the slower classes to different days. The dying classes dont seem to have an issue in smaller local races.

At events like the Baja 1000, bikes and limited classes can start at sunrise on Friday and have close to 48 hours at finish. Starting them before the unlimited classes gives them a less chewed up course, seperates the bikes further from the really fast guys, and allows crews spread out on the course. Trophy trucks down to class 10s start Saturday morning with a shorter time limit. Check point closing times would be at the same time for both races so all classes can afford a little downtime early and by the time the leaders of the second race catches slow guys it would be no different than when they catch local traffic now. Few and far between. Volunteers would work almost the same hours as now and maybe the big teams might send some crew early to help during the first race to ensure their race is smooth.

Tiered entry prices would also be nice. Maybe a multiplier of race class winner average speed might be a good starting point. Example: Score could charge 100 x MPH. TT= 100 x 56mph = 5600 entry fee
 

green787

Well-Known Member
Expand norra. Add a few of the older tracks and races to the schedule here in the states. I think part of m.d.r. dying off after the crash was due to the fact that alot of the damage could have been prevented with more staffing and signage to keep people further from the course. I get that its offroad racing and people do die. But the crowd basically standing on the course was completely preventable. Not saying that the crash wouldn't have happened.
Could you tell us how Patricia sitting in her trailer, could stop the kids from gathering at that place.... She never had to do that before.... Why should she have taken action at this race...??? Furthermore are you saying that if I plow into a crowd of people in Baja, that it is their fault for being too close to the track.... Don't you think the drivers should avoid running into the crowd of fans that are there to support you and cheer for you???.....
 

vegasloki

Well-Known Member
I don't agree. BITD races in laughlin just like SNORE. But it cost twice as much to do BITD and you get literally no bonus at all. One is for profit. The other is put on by racers for the racers. Its no wonder these classes are flourishing in the latter.
I wouldn't call 16-20 entries flourishing. Sustaining, sure.
 

misterktm

Well-Known Member
Jeepspeed...$850 entry fee. Runs all the BITD races, with pay back plus year end champion/runner up/third place money. Currently there is a sponser (southwest boulder) paying $1000 bonus to winner. Added to the pot pay back, a win in 17 class has been around $1500. Depends on how many cars of course for the pot - but it's been in that ball park thus far this year. About the same last year also (had the bonus last year as well).
 

vegasloki

Well-Known Member
Rad how RDC can take a conversation about how to keep old classes alive and turn it in to petty arguments about UTV's vs the World, SNORE vs BITD, etc.
One of the reasons the old classes are dying is because of the accessibility of the golf cart. Natural evolution of racing. The old classes aren't coming back unless they're in some sort of nostalgia or vintage fun run group.
 

Fourstroker

Well-Known Member
Could you tell us how Patricia sitting in her trailer, could stop the kids from gathering at that place.... She never had to do that before.... Why should she have taken action at this race...??? Furthermore are you saying that if I plow into a crowd of people in Baja, that it is their fault for being too close to the track.... Don't you think the drivers should avoid running into the crowd of fans that are there to support you and cheer for you???.....
The crowds were there at the same location every year. Luckily nothing had happened prior to the big one. Some racing supporters had even went as far as installing snowfence in previous years at that location on there own. Patricia did none of this and refused to acknowledge it was needed. She was excellent however at collecting entry fees, giving dirty looks and letting some very dedicated volunteers run her races for her.
 

dan200

#BSF200
ROBBY - TAKE A DEEP BREATH

I was waiting for you to get here BTW.

Did you take that deep breath yet?

I know, you know, we all know, that the buggy classes are doing great in SNORE and 1600 is certainly in the lead of the car counts of the VW guys. SNORE has that shizzy on lock. But SNORE only represents a portion of the desert racing community. Outside of SNORE the vw vehicles have weak and non existent car counts.

So to say the class is flourishing in SNORE is probably accurate but to say it is flourishing within all the orgs maybe not so much, right?

I mean if we were only talking about SNORE then based on BAP entries last year "Spec TT" is a horrible class with only 5 entries when in reality that class is giant.

Right?

Also, I am going the SNORE/MORE/ULTRA-4 race in September. Please stop by the trailer. I know you miss me.
 

offroadracer516

Well-Known Member
ROBBY - TAKE A DEEP BREATH

I was waiting for you to get here BTW.

Did you take that deep breath yet?

I know, you know, we all know, that the buggy classes are doing great in SNORE and 1600 is certainly in the lead of the car counts of the VW guys. SNORE has that shizzy on lock. But SNORE only represents a portion of the desert racing community. Outside of SNORE the vw vehicles have weak and non existent car counts.

So to say the class is flourishing in SNORE is probably accurate but to say it is flourishing within all the orgs maybe not so much, right?

I mean if we were only talking about SNORE then based on BAP entries last year "Spec TT" is a horrible class with only 5 entries when in reality that class is giant.

Right?

Also, I am going the SNORE/MORE/ULTRA-4 race in September. Please stop by the trailer. I know you miss me.
You are missing Code,Record,Baja sur. Stable numbers in all of them. Only places we don't have good entry numbers is SCORE and BITD for the reasons I posted. No bonus and high entry fee's. Baja sur night race over the weekend.
 

ACME

Well-Known Member
Having raced & owned a lot of cars in different classes across all the orgs this has been an interesting thread to watch. A few thoughts:

1) Reviving a class like 5/16 or some of the lesser participated classes is going to be based on the rules and costs and it's value to the participants. The fact is where BITD/SCORE have created a vacuum with their attention to certain classes and by neglecting of others, it has allowed SNORE, MORE, CODE, Record and others to take the lead with those classes. It's all based on their business model and it seems the two primary folk are not as interested in the "Grass Roots Racer" as they once might have been

2) It's been debated before but the history of the sport is less interesting to the new era participants and maybe also an influence in the decline of certain classes. Anyone who started in the last 5 or even 10 years doesn't remember the heyday of 9, 11, 5/15, 5, 1600, 7s etc... It'd be interesting to know how many raced or watched races: Pre Bypass shocks, GPS, Trophy Truck or LS motors. Not that long ago V6/clutch cars were competitive an if you had a 3" shock you were a baller. Pre Insta-Face, Go-Desert, Dusty Times, ORA or even those who remember the first issue of Dirt Sports? Nowadays everyone lives online and who's made a sweet 1600 social media video. Honestly the only way you'd know about a 5-1600 or 7S is if your family raced one as most find the sport via social media, not by word of mouth or accident like most of us old guys did...

3) All of the HOA type classes that have failed seemed to have done so based on the focused supplier theory or due to management/special interest problems. Ironically that same mentality is also part of the reason for participation dwindling while costs have been escalating in the limited or "budget" classes that might need reviving. Special interests always seem the root of the issues in this sport

4) One unique situation (problem) with the UTV's is that they progress with each model year and new releases, so a 2-3 year old car is last gen. The rules, direction and leadership of the class are designed to follow the manufacturers thus obsolescence is a fact of model & factory team progression. (a 7 year old 16 or class 9 is still racey today). The UTV class seems to have a more disposable mentality affixed to it. Maybe it's more like a bike mentality as initially they are bought and modified and not theoretically scratch built thus every few years you update? Maybe it's that a significant portion of the participants are younger and that's more of the mentality.

5) The smaller orgs such as SNORE, More, Record, Code, Vorra etc have done a great job considering what they have to work with/state of the sport, that the free-wheeling IDGAF attitude of MDR has left us.

6) The MDR issues and who's at fault for what happened has been debated to death. Regardless of whatever your position, the sad fact is: This is what the sport is left with based on the MDR legacy. From my perspective, knowing a little of the history as well as considering the various participants and suppliers comments; we are all basically to blame for the crappy spot the sport sits in.

We are lucky to be, or have been able to participate in the most challenging motorsport on the planet. It'd be cool to see a next gen racers from all classes racing through the desert but that will be a challenge...
 
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