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Can dying classes be revived?

paranoid56

Active Member
Ive seen smaller classes state they dont find the entry fees fair. So they hold off, atleast from big races such as SCORE. Maybe fees/time limits should be rethinked to keep Participants.

My buddy just spent about 2 years building a Class 11,But hes sticking to CODE for now. #1119
yea, but 1119 is a big baby and barely finished that last race lol
 

dan200

#BSF200
Familiarize me. Are the code,baja sur,record races long or short?

Only places we don't have good entry numbers is SCORE and BITD for the reasons I posted. No bonus and high entry fee's.
I could suggest that SNORE has incentives for 1600 and SCORE and BITD dont and that helps SNORE. The other classes at score and BITD (most of them) are packed without bonus incentives.

I wonder because for the most part SNORE races have less miles than SCORE and BITD if that has anything to do with it. Thoughts?

IF SNORE had the same entry fee and no bonuses as SCORE or BITD, where do you think the 1600 people would race?

EDIT- I love SNORE and 1600 but i strongly feel that the class will be the next to become a vintage class and that will make it die.
 

J Prich

Well-Known Member
Familiarize me. Are the code,baja sur,record races long or short?


I could suggest that SNORE has incentives for 1600 and SCORE and BITD dont and that helps SNORE. The other classes at score and BITD (most of them) are packed without bonus incentives.

I wonder because for the most part SNORE races have less miles than SCORE and BITD if that has anything to do with it. Thoughts?

IF SNORE had the same entry fee and no bonuses as SCORE or BITD, where do you think the 1600 people would race?

EDIT- I love SNORE and 1600 but i strongly feel that the class will be the next to become a vintage class and that will make it die.
Dan,
I would think its fair to speculate that distance DOES have an impact. Probably because of logistics costs, potential repair costs, etc. Speculating, but there is likely a reason that the turn out for BAP and RATR in many classes is triple what they are in the other races throughout the season. Entry fee is the same...so there is obviously a reason that people find $450 to race BAP more desirable than $450 to race the SNORE 250 or night race...for example.
 

tapeworm

Well-Known Member
Would the elimination of high horsepower classes (TT, class 1, and 6100) possibly have a good impact on the smaller series? The course would get less chewed up, insurance may be less resulting in lower entry fees, and more people may see the limited classes as a viable option when they aren’t being overshadowed by the high horsepower stuff. Limit cars to 37 inch max tire maybe?

Or am I way off base?
 

offroadracer516

Well-Known Member
Familiarize me. Are the code,baja sur,record races long or short?


I could suggest that SNORE has incentives for 1600 and SCORE and BITD dont and that helps SNORE. The other classes at score and BITD (most of them) are packed without bonus incentives.

I wonder because for the most part SNORE races have less miles than SCORE and BITD if that has anything to do with it. Thoughts?

IF SNORE had the same entry fee and no bonuses as SCORE or BITD, where do you think the 1600 people would race?

EDIT- I love SNORE and 1600 but i strongly feel that the class will be the next to become a vintage class and that will make it die.
They have long and short races just like we do here. They are getting around 20 cars a race,even more sometimes. Entry fee is the biggest factor in not racing SCORE and BITD. I know its why we don't race there. Our cars are on the start line several times a year in snore and more though.
 

bajafox

Accepted
I just saw a bunch of these dead classes at the finish line in San Quintin this last weekend

17 class 16 entries
11 class 7 entries
20 class 7s entries (the deadest class of all in the states)
9 class 5/16 entries
17 class 15 (sportsman 5/16) entries
17 class 11s entries

Point to point from Ensenada to San Quintin 250 miles. We literally chased a TT Spec with 3 chase trucks, super easy race to chase. It was my first time at this race and most definitely not the last, my new top 3 favorite race of year
 

dan200

#BSF200
Dan,
I would think its fair to speculate that distance DOES have an impact. Probably because of logistics costs, potential repair costs, etc. Speculating, but there is likely a reason that the turn out for BAP and RATR in many classes is triple what they are in the other races throughout the season. Entry fee is the same...so there is obviously a reason that people find $450 to race BAP more desirable than $450 to race the SNORE 250 or night race...for example.
I think you just called 1600 guys poor. (kidding)

Casino races rule!

everyone is mostly at the same hotel so the party aspect is great.

The races are balls out dashes which is awesome.

The chase crew can be minimal.

I love these races.
 

J Prich

Well-Known Member
I think you just called 1600 guys poor. (kidding)

Casino races rule!

everyone is mostly at the same hotel so the party aspect is great.

The races are balls out dashes which is awesome.

The chase crew can be minimal.

I love these races.
They are great. So maybe it's hype, maybe it's something else, I don't know. But I do know that the entry fee for BAP is the same as the entry fee for the SNORE 250 and the logistics are essentially the same. And everyone could still stay at Buffalo Bills and party if they wanted. But the turnout for the SNORE 250 in many classes was significantly smaller than it is for BAP. If entry is the same cost, maybe money isn't the only factor that compels people to show up and race.
 

BajaFand

Well-Known Member
They have long and short races just like we do here. They are getting around 20 cars a race,even more sometimes. Entry fee is the biggest factor in not racing SCORE and BITD. I know its why we don't race there. Our cars are on the start line several times a year in snore and more though.
So my point is I will agree with you that BITD has never offered a ton of support for some of the buggy classes (unless it’s Ford powered). On the other hand those buggy guys haven’t showed BITD much support either with the exception of 10 and 1500 which have done quite well. So let’s say General Tire got together with BITD and put together a cheap entry and bonus/payout program just like JeepSpeed has. $850 entry blah blah blah... everyone in the class would obviously have to run Generals. Do you think that would bring out the class 9, 5-1600, 12, and 16 guys to run the series? Or do you think there’s more to it than entry fees why guys aren’t running?
 

BajaFand

Well-Known Member
One of the reasons the old classes are dying is because of the accessibility of the golf cart. Natural evolution of racing. The old classes aren't coming back unless they're in some sort of nostalgia or vintage fun run group.
The true production based truck classes were starting to die before the golf carts came along and completely ruined desert racing as we know it lol. Class 8 and 7s have been nearly dead since the mid 2000s and besides entry fee prices the only thing I can of why is honestly the 1450 mentality. Not to bag on that class as I think it’s a great way to get into racing and it’s usually very family based. But it seems like when that class started growing in popularity nobody wanted to build or race anything within a set of rules anymore. Everyone just wanted the most travel with the biggest shocks and tires they fit on there. Nobody seems to want the challenge of trying to push the limits of working around a frame rail or stock spring/shock configurations. Class 7 open turned into 7200 tube chassis trucks. 6100 came along and what few class 8 and Protrucks were remaining running totally disappeared. All gave way to classes with little to no rules.

I shouldn’t say 1450 was the only reason. I also believe costs to be competitive in those classes got out of hand as well as the 7s/7sx split (much like the 5-1600 microstub ordeal). 7s trucks should not have ever been allowed to run full race engines with fabricated 9” floater rear ends and race hubs all the way around. Class has pretty much turned into TT engines and complete TT drivetrains and tires. So they’re almost as expensive to race as a TT and more difficult to build and prep, so most guys said why not just race TT? I believe the opening of some rules in these classes allowed the budgets to get out of control and kill entries.
 

TRichards

Well-Known Member
The only thing keeping classes from dying is people showing up to race. All the classes still exist in all the series. These vehicles are still around for the most part. Bring the 7s trucks, class 8 trucks, 5/1600's and show up and go at it. I personally will be at it someday soon.
 

TRichards

Well-Known Member
I want to know if SCORE will open up TT spec to include all the 2WD trophy trucks that are and will be for sale if you take out the TT engine and put in the 525 LS3?
 

crazyeye

Well-Known Member
Yes they can look at class 10. Just needs smarter folks than me.
 

crazyeye

Well-Known Member
Yes they can look at class 10. Just needs smarter folks than me.
 

Bro_Gill

Well-Known Member
Trying to understand how some folks think we got where we are because- Patricia? Race distance? Age? WHAT??? Entry Level racing is done by entry level racers, the vast majority of which do not have a ton of money to start with. That is the KEY! Those who have plenty of money and somehow just stumbled into the sport very rarely start in a 9 or 5-1600. Those who have money and want to get a kid started generally put them in a 1600 a couple years then bump them up from there. 1600 is a great class, really, and costs are generally much cheaper than trying to go the UTV route, but there is no promotability there. Polaris doesn't care about faster cheaper 1600 cars. Wonder why? Those that can usually do move up from 1600 when they can afford it. And most are still paying their own bills. There are just about ZERO car owners looking to hire 1600 guys to race their faster cars in the same series because, well, it is still just a hobby sport. The way you grow a sport is by pulling in people who do not race. If it is cheap enough, some folks who would otherwise be on the fence will pull the trigger and buy a cheap car to get their feet wet. If it is too expensive for the first jump, they do something else.

I have always wondered why there isn't a entry level 4 banger truck class (there is, but the rules create a fixed cost rather than competitive costs due to the rules package). Say an Ibeam ranger chassis with any manufacturer's 4 cylinder motor and the body must match the engine package. 35" tires (any manufacturer) and single coilovers per corner (3.0 rear and front, 14" travel at both ends. and limit wheel travel to 16-18" max. Pump Gas! Many fab shops could offer base chassis (cost would be pretty cheap) and shock, wheel, and tire manufacturers would compete for their tire on your ride. Something similar to the IMCA format in roundyround. Because those can built very easily by garage guys at home, they are. Very similar to the stock mini type racers at Lucas. Kids can afford something like this. Kids can't afford $30k+ for a base UTV and the accompanying parts needed to go racing. Maybe their dads can, but they would be better off putting the kid in a 1600!
 

NIKAL

Well-Known Member
I think most agree Snore is the top series for the limited VW classes which we are talking about dying. So I looked at the Snore 2018 results & 2019 results for class 1600, 5/16 & 9.

1600 is by far the biggest class of the 3 limited classes. But surprisingly the only 2 races that had impressive entry #’s were BAP & Rage. Those two races had large #’s in most classes racing, not just 1600. The Unlimited classes included. The rest of the Snore series, the 1600 class entry’s were low compared to these two races.

2018 Race, class, entries
BAP 1600, 32 / 5/16, 6 / 9, 14
Ridgecrest 1600, 10 / 5/16, 0 / 9, 3
Knotty Pine 1600, 14 / 5/16, 1 / 9, 4
KC 1600, 8 / 5/16, 3 / 9, 2
Snore 250 1600, 4 / 5/16, 0 / 9, 2
Rage 1600, 35 / 5/16, 11 / 9, 23

2019 Class, Entries
Snore 250 1600, 18 / 5/16, 6 / 9, 4
BAP 1600, 30 / 5/16, 11 / 9, 19
Knotty Pine 1600, 11 / 5/16, 4 / 9, 5
KC 1600, 16 / 5/16, 3 / 9, 15

With the hundreds of limited cars out there, is the Snore series really proof that these classes are still going strong?

I think the popularity of BAP & Rage is that these races are short, so they create close racing, no need for large crews & chase support, expensive fuel bills etc.. The other 250 mile Snore races see a dramatic reduction in entries.
 
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