Can YOU, answer this question?

Vtr_Racing

Well-Known Member
This is kinda an off topic, well, way off. The state of Texas gives a test every year to asses their schools. This is a practice test that was given to 3rd graders. Can you answer question number 2. Please post you answer as I would like to bring this to the attention of the local school board and the Texas education commision. This should be interesting.....
http://vtrracing.50megs.com/photo2.html
That is the url.

Speed Safely
 

TrucksR4Girls

Well-Known Member
UMMMMM Im pretty sure that the answer is NOT even given....if theres 4 smileys and each one is 4 dozen, thats...192?? somewere around there and thats not on there...hmmm trick question??


" Hondas are like Tampons, Every Pu*sy has one!"
 

JenDiggityDirt

Well-Known Member
If one of your local schools made up that practice test and let that mistake slip through I'd say no further assessment by the state is necessary!!! If the state sent that practice test to schools to help prep then I say they have no businesses assessing schools at all! But hey, mistakes happen. I hope someone checks the REAL test for similar errors!

<font color=red>JEN!</font color=red>
 

Vtr_Racing

Well-Known Member
Jen, my point exactly and 192 is what my son came up with. But the answer wasnt there, so he guessed and guessed wrong. But the math he had done off to the side was correct. The teacher got a bit miffed when we called on it and said I cant believe your getting upset over one question. She totally missed the point. Thanks for the responses and hopefully will get a few more.

Speed Safely
 

Ryno

Well-Known Member
I was in Texas for 4th-6th grade. When I came to San Diego for the end of 6th grade...It was like going through a time warp. CA is so far advanced over TX, it's almost the butt of a couple redneck jokes.

Regarding the question in question...I agree with you guys. Kids have anough doubt about everything as is, and esp with Math. So, why you have a 2 part multiplication question, and kids do it right, but still think they are wrong.....that's just asinine. The teacher/ education system needs to be made aware that it's not the question that you have a problem with, it's the fact that regardless that your son and many other children had the correct answer, they were led to believe that they were wrong. This is a issue of proofreading, as well as the confidence in a subject that is hard to start with.

Ryno

Build it like a Rhino, and Leave it be.
 

JenDiggityDirt

Well-Known Member
In all fairness, it's easy to make stupid mistakes even if you are an educated adult. If that mistake had gone through on actual state assessment test I would raise hell. But, if it was just a test some teacher made up to help her kids prep for the real thing, I wouldn't get too upset. Since you already started a totally un-offroad topic *smile* I'm going to go ahead and comment heartily on it. Those assessment tests are completely innacurate and a waste of time and money. We have a California version, the SAT9, coming up very quickly and what it does to the entire school staff is ridiculous. Since the beginning of the year it has been stressed over and over that we HAVE to get the kids to score better (the school I am at scored lowest in our district last year...because our school sucks or because 85% of the student population comes from low income/non-English speaking homes?). The message being sent is: if it's not on the test it's not important! Teaching isn't just about repeating facts and processes over and over until a child has it memorized. It's trying to instill interest in learning and showing how basic skills relate to the real world, and soooo much more than just performing well on a test!!! Of course, kids should be at a certain level at each age, but to judge whether a teacher is doing his or her job based just on a test score is so unfair. A child could be having a bad week, his grandpa could be in the hospital or his parents could be fighting, and that could affect a test score. I work in Special Ed (like BajaWaldo!) and our kids are required to take the same test as the rest of the school. These kids have learning disabilities. In everything we do we have to go about it in a different way than the regular classroom (because if we didn't we'd be just like a regular classroom and then why would the kids be sent to us...get it?). But this test comes along and we have to follow all the testing procedures and not help them on anything, not read them any word problems even if they rock at math but suck at reading, not present the info in a way that they may better be able to understand it, and on and on. We can't go about a normal day because it's PREP FOR THE TEST! PREP FOR THE TEST! It totally interferes with what we should be doing with our day: TEACHING. I know I am rambling on, but I passionately HATE these stupid tests and I'm sure your son's teacher isn't too fond of them either, so don't be too hard on her.

<font color=red>JEN!</font color=red>
 

J_Dog

Well-Known Member
The answer is there, its just not labeled correctly. The answere should be "16 Dozen". It appears they forgot to place the "dozen" behind the answer. This does make it very confusing for our young ones. You would think that someone would proof read such an exam to make sure it is correct.

Jeff Matlock

 

Kritter

Krittro Campbell
I didnt know deductive reasoning was required at such a young age.

Kris

"A signature always reveals a man's character -- and sometimes even his name. "
 

Waldo

Safehouse
Jen...What are you talkin' about? I can't wait to administer the SAT 9 (Stanford Achievement Test or commonly referred to as the Stanford 9) in 15 days and counting!!LOL. Here is my multi-paragraph response to this topic.

I almost don't believe this is a topic on this website. To begin with, every state in this country has an equivalent test to the SAT9. These tests are norm-referenced tests (your child's score is compared to the sample of people/students who helped develop the test) that are given to determine the level of achievement students have as referenced to other students, as well as the overall performance of a school and their respective district.

The big push from Gov. Gray Davis was to have "ACCOUNTABILITY". When this flash word came about, the focus became "who is responsible for the education of our children?". The "accountability" card, as I put it, placed the entire educational responsibility solely upon teachers and districts. This is a horrible thing to do (It's all about politics and votes)! The student is only at school for approximately 6 hours per day. About 5 instructional hours if you count recess, lunch, and other activities. The student is at home for the rest of the day/evening. Since birth, the student/child has been molded and, believe it or not, TAUGHT by his/her parents the ways of life (morals, values, religion, character, personality, the difference between right and wrong, etc., etc.). THE PARENT IS THE PRIMARY EDUCATOR and the TEACHER IS THE SECONDARY EDUCATOR!!!!!PERIOD!!!!!

The state of California reevaluated "what" schools were teaching the students. All of a sudden, the "frameworks" of what to teach (which we have had forever) became the California State Standards after a little tweaking. For the last few years of "accountability" has been measured by the Academic Performance Index (API). Some parents might be aware of this. One of the main criteria for determining your API is SAT9 scores. The problem is with the whole API scoring and rewards program. First, what is tested on the SAT 9 is NOT the same thing that is taught in our classrooms. In other words, the test is not aligned with the state standards we are supposed to teach. They are currently changing this problem. When the test if given, it is not as valid as parents might think. Don't use the results of this test as a means for determining your childs's achievement level. Talk to the teachers and, more importantly, your children. Second, the first year the API came out, there were 3 levels of rewards that could be earned. Depending on how well the school reached their API Goals depends on what type of rewards the school will earn. There WERE teacher rewards, and two different school wide rewards. The first year, our school missed our goal by one point. No money our way. Last year, we more than doubled our goal. We are entitled big money!!!! But guess what, Davis isn't paying out what he said he would. How do you think that makes me feel. Just like Jen, I teach in a low socio-economic school (87% of our students qualify for "free-lunches" because of their financial level). 80% of the student population is considered ELL (English Language Learners). They have been in this country less than 5 years. Tell me we don't need the so called "reward" money for instructional purposes. I still don't have enough books for my students in certain areas. And being in special education, I feel we need additional money to successfully implement each students' educaitonal goals.

As Jen stated above, we are in the specialized area of Special Education. These tests are written at the grade level of the student. For example; 7th graders take the 7th grade SAT9. Now, I have students who cannot read at a 7th grade level. I might have a student that reads at a 3rd grade level because of his handicapping condition. However, the state mandates that my students have to take the "grade-level" test, being the 7th grade one. This is very frustrating to my students (not to mention myself). There are modifications and/or accomodations that can be used if it is determined necessary by the IEP team (Individual Education Plan - consists of the parents, teacher, and school administration). This is good and it is necessary for certain students with disabilities. However, if mods/accoms are used, the student's score on the SAT9 is not counted with the overall school score and this poses a problem for many districts. The state also says we cannot have too many students taking the test with Non-Standard Accommodations (the kinds that don't count). What a pain!!!

Bottom line - if you are interested in the progress of a student...Don't just look at a test score or one question. There are plenty of mistakes on tests (many of them pertain to how the questions are written) and there are plenty of teachers/parents who aren't perfect (including me!). Take time with your child, their homework, school activities, stay in contact with all of their teachers and most importantly READ TO THEM, READ WITH THEM, HAVE THEM READ TO YOU.

Sorry for writing a book, but I hope it brings insight to everyone out there. If there are any questions, please post them and I will repsond asap. I am know stepping off of my soap box!

BRAAAAAAAAP!
 

Waldo

Safehouse
Sean, I was simply sharing my insight with Marc and anyone who cares. For Marc to contact his child's teacher is tells me he is involved and cares about his child's education. This, my friend, is my exact point!!!

BRAAAAAAAAP!
 

JenDiggityDirt

Well-Known Member
This thread is certainly going to be more interesting to educators and parents than others. The thing that bugs me, Waldo, is that I almost feel like, because it's TEST PREP! TEST PREP! TEST PREP! we're not really able to do a good job right now. I mean, because our test scores were soooo low last year maybe it's just more intense at my school, but it really is driving me nuts. I sure hope we do better this year so maybe next year we can start doing our REAL job!

<font color=red>JEN!</font color=red>
 

Vtr_Racing

Well-Known Member
Thats it right there! We are involved parents and watch what happens with the kids at school. Every paper and test they bring home we go over and review it. My wife a little more than I. She is really bent on home schooling our kids. Not to say that theyre arent alot of good teachers out there but most of the times the teachers hands are tied. Too much political correctness. Back to the test I posted about, they have been prepping these kids for this test since the first grade. Whats disturbing is that when you question the teacher, they act like the parents are being unreasonable, and if you dont do anything than your said to not be involved with your kids education. This thread is very interesting. Not quite what I expected and some great insight. I went to school in California, K thru 12th grade and had to take the SAT tests back in those days.

Speed Safely
 

rdc

- users no longer part of the rdc family -
You would be surprised what kindergartaners are learning today. My son came home one day and told me he was doing fractions, I went right. Then I saw his worksheets the next day, sure enough, he was doing fractions, short and simple, but definitely fractions. He is in first grade now, and is a whiz at Math. With what they are teaching kids today, I probably won't be able to help him later on. Dummy at math, you know.

Ellen D
 

JenDiggityDirt

Well-Known Member
I am very pro-home schooling, not necessarily because there are bad teachers out there (there are) but because it just seems like such a big chance you are taking to send your kids to someone else to be raised during their formative years. A kid spends six hours a day at their school. If you figure they spend an hour with their mom or dad in the morning before school, get home at 3:30 and go to bed by 9:00...you're pretty much dividing the job of raising him or her...and how much of that time after school is quality time where you are teaching them values and skills? It's just a sad fact that because most families have to have both parents working, people aren't REALLY raising their own kids anymore. I don't believe that's the way it was meant to be. I'm not saying that everyone who sends their kids to school are bad parents, just that they're fooling themselves if they think that they are the only people raising their own kids.

<font color=red>JEN!</font color=red>
 

Waldo

Safehouse
My wife in a Kindergarten teacher in Anaheim. When she brings her work home and creates lessons, I can't believe some of the things they are doing. There are soooo many state standards to learn in Kindergarten. She complains of having to "test" so much. That is the way of the state now-a-days. We need to keep feeding the pig instead of weighing it all the time!

In my opinion, home schooling is a good idea if the parent(s) have the resources and knowhow. My old neighbor pulled her 7 year old son out of a private school (not public) because she was unhappy with the teachers and administration. She would come over and discuss her weekly lessons with me and I thought that was awesome!!! She was very computer literate and even incorporated Powerpoint lessons. Her kids love it. The only issue I have with home schooling is that the child doesn't get the chance to socially interact with other children. This can be a good thing sometimes but making and keeping friends at a young age is very important. All-in-all, if I had the chance, I would probably home school if I could.

Jen, I partly disagree with you. It has been researched that children learn and retain more knowledge before the age 5 than all their years after combined. This includes being socially conditioned with morals and values. That is why there are well-behaved students and not so well-behaved students starting in Kindergarten. However, when it comes to the all so important teenage years (intermediate and high school), I feel teachers have a lot more influence than parents think. These years of a teenagers life are very delicate and influential. This is part of the reason I am a teacher...I had a very influential teacher, and wether he knew it or not he made me want to be a better all-around student (let alone a teacher). Students, I feel, will identify better with a younger teacher than the "old-school" Betty's who have been around for a while. Again, this can be good and bad depending on the teacher. Know who your children(s) teachers!

BRAAAAAAAAP!
 

rdc

- users no longer part of the rdc family -
I feel that social interaction is also their education in their formative years. We had a big decision to make on whether to send our kid to public or private school. They were both the same distance from our house also. The public had a very good academic record. It is a deseg school which I believe gets more funding than one that isn't. The private school is very famous for it's academics and is very challenging for the brightest child. Was he up for that task? I did not want to set him for failure. We opted for the public school and have never regretted it. We felt Shawn would get a good education and the diversity he needs to get along in life. Let's admit it, life is not full of little mostly white catholic kids, there is alot more out there. He has had some great teachers, both young and old, and has made some great friends. I am not saying all public schools are this way, but ours is.

Ellen D
 
Top