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Changes at Score

Bro_Gill

Well-Known Member
Dave- Class 11 with 4 lug drums, I agree with. 5 lug german drums are much harder to find. I know you don't run empi drums on your race stuff. That's the difference. The early stuff is harder to get and cost much more.
 

oldschool5er

Well-Known Member
I too think it is all BS and a disgusting mess. The class is some kind of Mutant class right now and is so far away from the original intent that it is a mockery of C11. I have no problem getting German drums and the like. Dave reflects what I feel about this.

As an example I talked to Dennis Hollenbeck in 2016 when he was getting beat up about rule changes he and Norman were talking about. He was assuring at the time that the rule changes were just to clean up the errors from when they were originally written, and a list Norman wanted to see that had suggestions in what to do to get the class across the finish lines. Dennis had described to me just some minor changes to allow non performance enhancing items and forbid after market items, NO close ratios. He even stated to Norman that the class needed no changes to allow more performance as the class was Fast Enough. See where that has gotten C11 now in just a few short years with practically an unlimited stock car with big carbs. These new rules will cost thousands more for new and old teams wanting to race. I hear all the time that people have a choice not to add those items but that is a bunch of BS as who doesn't want to keep up with the pack.

Dave- Class 11 with 4 lug drums, I agree with. 5 lug german drums are much harder to find. I know you don't run empi drums on your race stuff. That's the difference. The early stuff is harder to get and cost much more.
You mentioned 5 lug that are hard to find, but really how many swingers are still running? Slettens maybe, Dave could if he brings his old car back, but I am sure he can find 5 bolt. not many others I think. The real issue becomes when aftermarket wheels are allowed, that is performance enhancing to me.
 

Bro_Gill

Well-Known Member
I too think it is all BS and a disgusting mess. The class is some kind of Mutant class right now and is so far away from the original intent that it is a mockery of C11. I have no problem getting German drums and the like. Dave reflects what I feel about this.

As an example I talked to Dennis Hollenbeck in 2016 when he was getting beat up about rule changes he and Norman were talking about. He was assuring at the time that the rule changes were just to clean up the errors from when they were originally written, and a list Norman wanted to see that had suggestions in what to do to get the class across the finish lines. Dennis had described to me just some minor changes to allow non performance enhancing items and forbid after market items, NO close ratios. He even stated to Norman that the class needed no changes to allow more performance as the class was Fast Enough. See where that has gotten C11 now in just a few short years with practically an unlimited stock car with big carbs. These new rules will cost thousands more for new and old teams wanting to race. I hear all the time that people have a choice not to add those items but that is a bunch of BS as who doesn't want to keep up with the pack.



You mentioned 5 lug that are hard to find, but really how many swingers are still running? Slettens maybe, Dave could if he brings his old car back, but I am sure he can find 5 bolt. not many others I think. The real issue becomes when aftermarket wheels are allowed, that is performance enhancing to me.
Had the rear suspension rule not changed regarding rear shock mounting and CVs, swingers would still be the car of choice, and where would the class be? The rear made the cars faster, and now stock parts are taking a beating.
 

J BomBer

Well-Known Member
Had the rear suspension rule not changed regarding rear shock mounting and CVs, swingers would still be the car of choice, and where would the class be? The rear made the cars faster, and now stock parts are taking a beating.
parts take a beating by people who don’t know how to drive, when we built our 11 in 2009 until we traded it in 2017, several wins and podiums and all we ever broke was the transmission, blew a motor and broke a chromoly spring plate. Never broke a drum, spindle, ball joint, shock tower, nothing.
 

J BomBer

Well-Known Member
Instead of stating its so easy to find these parts why not put your sources contact info here so all the guys who are having a tough time finding parts can source them. Then you wont have guys who can't find parts asking for a rule change. Right?
see above post, guys who want changes are the same ones not finishing races or breaking parts cause they’re driving too hard.
 

swiftracing5

Well-Known Member
see above post, guys who want changes are the same ones not finishing races or breaking parts cause they’re driving too hard.
So you said it’s not hard to find parts, now you’re saying you guys actually don’t even buy parts since you never break them.
I get your point but Joe Shmo who wants to get into class 11 doesn’t have that skill or network to succeed.

No dog in the fight.
 

harleys dad

Well-Known Member
Dave- Class 11 with 4 lug drums, I agree with. 5 lug german drums are much harder to find. I know you don't run empi drums on your race stuff. That's the difference. The early stuff is harder to get and cost much more.
Martin i do agree with you on that, it is the reason i retired my 67 in favor of irs cars. my 67 is sitting in chula vista with 2 cracked rear drums but really how many are racing 5 lug cars, to me they should allow aluminum centers on 67 and earlier cars not change the entire braking system on class 11
 

harleys dad

Well-Known Member
Instead of stating its so easy to find these parts why not put your sources contact info here so all the guys who are having a tough time finding parts can source them. Then you wont have guys who can't find parts asking for a rule change. Right?
craigs list and market place, offer up off road clasifieds etc its that easy, i just bought 4 fenders a rear deck lid all 4 bumper brackets and a rear bumper for a 74 vw for 100 dollars first time looking for them, 4 lug drums are a dime a doen and vw parts are easy to find if one takes a few minutes to look. brand new fenders bumpers drums are not the way to go in class 11
 

Bro_Gill

Well-Known Member
parts take a beating by people who don’t know how to drive, when we built our 11 in 2009 until we traded it in 2017, several wins and podiums and all we ever broke was the transmission, blew a motor and broke a chromoly spring plate. Never broke a drum, spindle, ball joint, shock tower, nothing.
So you are saying you never swapped out parts because you though they had finished their lifespan on a race car due to miles. Oh wait, there aren't that many miles between Primm and Rage.
 

dirtslinger

Well-Known Member
So you are saying you never swapped out parts because you though they had finished their lifespan on a race car due to miles. Oh wait, there aren't that many miles between Primm and Rage.
Hate to just keep beating a dead horse, but Dave's old car is now our car, it still has the same drums on it, and has done 3 mints as well as 3 RATR races. Not that, that is 1000's of miles, but the same drums are still on the car.
 

J BomBer

Well-Known Member
So you are saying you never swapped out parts because you though they had finished their lifespan on a race car due to miles. Oh wait, there aren't that many miles between Primm and Rage.
We did swap parts that are supposedly hard to find, yes primm, rage, winning the more 500 in Lucerne, Mexico, caliente, just to name a few that rack up miles.
 

Bro_Gill

Well-Known Member
Hate to just keep beating a dead horse, but Dave's old car is now our car, it still has the same drums on it, and has done 3 mints as well as 3 RATR races. Not that, that is 1000's of miles, but the same drums are still on the car.
I know that car, Have worked on that car. You broke stuff! Never gave the drums a chance to break first!
 

dirtslinger

Well-Known Member
I know that car, Have worked on that car. You broke stuff! Never gave the drums a chance to break first!
We have only broken a front shock tower, or a rear main seal, other than that, we have never broken a drum. Never broke one in our other car either. I'm not saying that they don't break, but you can get many many miles out of them. They are not too hard to find either, granted they aren't dirt cheap anymore, but they are available.
 

WALSHMOTORSPORTS

Well-Known Member
Hey guys....not a class 11 issue but a tech question. I’ve raced all SCORES races, Rage, Ridgecrest, blah,blah....My question is about post tech. Believe me i sure don’t want to take my racecar apart after a 500, 1000 mile or even a local type race.
But I don’t see hardly any...if any...post tech. At Rage a year ago we had a “tech guy measuring the venturis down the throats of our single 44 carbs and he was saying we are all good but he had the wrong numbers for the rule size!
Other than a venturi check ive never seen the actual cc’c checked or compression either.
No im not saying I know a cheater out there but i do believe it keeps everyone on there toes if they do more post race tech.
What is your thoughts?
 

Bro_Gill

Well-Known Member
I believe there was a 9 car DQ'd at Rage last year as well as the year before, one for hi(gher than allowed) compression, and the other for too many CC's.
 

harleys dad

Well-Known Member
Hey guys....not a class 11 issue but a tech question. I’ve raced all SCORES races, Rage, Ridgecrest, blah,blah....My question is about post tech. Believe me i sure don’t want to take my racecar apart after a 500, 1000 mile or even a local type race.
But I don’t see hardly any...if any...post tech. At Rage a year ago we had a “tech guy measuring the venturis down the throats of our single 44 carbs and he was saying we are all good but he had the wrong numbers for the rule size!
Other than a venturi check ive never seen the actual cc’c checked or compression either.
No im not saying I know a cheater out there but i do believe it keeps everyone on there toes if they do more post race tech.
What is your thoughts?
they mostly P and G I have had my gear ratios checked many many times but never check for porting or big valves anything like that. I have had to pull heads more times than I can count but not in the past 15 years not once. Tech leaves a lot of question marks after a race thats is for sure. One of the Baja 1000s I won in the 80s I got so many protests after tech was done which was not much I took the engine and trans home in pieces inside the car they looked for everything and being a swing axle car was a pain in the neck getting it on the trailer and off again but I have not seen that kind of thing since in class 11
 

fastfelix

Well-Known Member
We have only broken a front shock tower, or a rear main seal, other than that, we have never broken a drum. Never broke one in our other car either. I'm not saying that they don't break, but you can get many many miles out of them. They are not too hard to find either, granted they aren't dirt cheap anymore, but they are available.
But u guys are stud muffins Andy, big difference. Lol
 

WALSHMOTORSPORTS

Well-Known Member
Be glad to start it up again.......
Me too. I used to race stand up skiis years ago on the IJSBA National tour. Every top 3 went from the finish line to the tech area. A closed off area to officals and your mechanic. We tore down pretty much every single main event. No it wasn’t as complicated as a racecar but keeping people from getting to “creative” lets call it is also important. Most engine builders strive to play within the rules but random post race checks will keep “that guy” in check. im totally ok with because i will know i won or lost on a fair and even playground As well.
 
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