Cheating with helicopters

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ASITool

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I see a trend:

- In Dakar race we hear a rumor that RG burned his clutch giving MM a tow... then later we hear that no such thing happened
- Didn't some trackers fall off? Witnesses say speeding on the highway?
- I remember a class 1 car saying that he was pounding their rear bumper... they wouldn't move... then later we hear that no such thing happened
- Now we hear that the helicoptors are blocking with dust.... would it be too much of an assumption to anticipate VW's answer... never happened? filming?

I remember the Dakar tracker and RG and MM WERE stopped in the same area for a while. I saw the pictures without the tracker. I read the posts by the other racers. What it all adds up to is a lot of circumstantial evidence that VW cares a whole lot about their reputation... enough to cheat? enough to refuse to acknowledge those who offer assistance? enough to speed without a tracker? block with helos?

When it is just one incident you never know who is telling the truth, or even if both parties are truthful and just looking at it from different perspectives. VW has sponsored SCORE and given rides to various media outlets. They've already endebted a lot of the entities that could out them; they discredit the rest.

My analysis is that they're serious about winning/marketing, and that they're attacking on all fronts: developing good technology, hiring good drivers, sponsoring SCORE, developing media contacts, AND cheating. I would have a lot more respect for them if they did all of the other stuff without the cheating!

Just my two cents!
 

jo maoma

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All the DA helo's are in Iraq right now...........

mine's painted black and is circling Bob Yen's house as we speak...
 

WickedGravityVideo

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I was swarmed by no less than three choppers when the VW TT came by me at MM54 hill, but it had nothing to do with dusting followers --- just video and photo guys getting in close. It is a silly stretch to think that the VW team would have a chopper dust a protruck intentionally. I have heard that a chopper can be used to clear the dust, but I don't think they are used to kick up a smokescreen behind a friendly truck -- but what do I know? I was looking out for the Azteca Warriors #133 chopper at the Mike's turnoff again!
 

Gabe Lara

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SCORE had mandated a couple of years ago (at a TT driver/ owner meeting down @ SPD) that all helicopters observing the race were to be no lower than 500 feet, and to the right of the race vehicle they were observing. All re-fueling or landing was to be made at least 1/4 mile from the race course to keep the dust to a minimum, keep people/ spectators safe, and as not to interfere with the race.

These rules seemed to go out of the window within 2 races right after that meeting though.
 

SEANY

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Very lame deal my friends.

But if I had a heli and a license to fly it I would get as close to anything and everything because it would be fun. :D Come on guys you know you would too.
 

dirtdudeaz

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I have my license and have flown planes....there's no way i'd ever get that close to the ground especially to someone else. There's too much stuff that can go wrong and get killed over or kill someone else too. I know all the eye in the sky videos are cool and everything, but its not worth pissing people off and buzzing racers and risking lives. And you can get the news type helicopters that have the awesome cameras on them. If these big shot teams or companies were cool they'd shoot close ups from a half mile away.....And I'm pretty sure when the baja started Ted Mangels and Vic Wilson didn't have a spotter for them in 1967.

I think it'd be sweet if a competitors heli was flying that close, the co-pilots new job should be to jump onto it mid ride, and steal it Grand Theft Auto style....or just rig up a grappling hook and have the driver slam on the breaks, problem solved. They'd only fly that low once. lol
 

CaptinCrash

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.or just rig up a grappling hook and have the driver slam on the breaks, problem solved. They'd only fly that low once. lol

lol thats so funny i was rolling when i read that
 

Old School 8

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I wasnt there last weekend, but Ive been to / and in, plenty of Baja races. At the 500 2 years ago, I saw a helo clearing dust in front of a TT, until they saw US (spectating) in a remote valley. That helo imediately went UP a hundred feet, as to not look like what we saw it doing. too late. Its not any one Team.
 

richzajic

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I do know that at least one of the VW helo's had journalists in it and was focused on getting photo's and video of the race. Is it possible that they were doing it inadvertantly to get better shots?


Who Cares if they wanted better pictures ??

It Is Still BS
 

tcm glx

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I was swarmed by no less than three choppers when the VW TT came by me at MM54 hill, but it had nothing to do with dusting followers --- just video and photo guys getting in close. It is a silly stretch to think that the VW team would have a chopper dust a protruck intentionally. I have heard that a chopper can be used to clear the dust, but I don't think they are used to kick up a smokescreen behind a friendly truck -- but what do I know? I was looking out for the Azteca Warriors #133 chopper at the Mike's turnoff again!

Yeah, what he said...... i highly doubt they are out kicking up dust for a pro truck of all things.....but I guess, some people always want to look for reasons they could have done better maybe....??
 

cosmo

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SCORE had mandated a couple of years ago (at a TT driver/ owner meeting down @ SPD) that all helicopters observing the race were to be no lower than 500 feet, and to the right of the race vehicle they were observing. All re-fueling or landing was to be made at least 1/4 mile from the race course to keep the dust to a minimum, keep people/ spectators safe, and as not to interfere with the race.

These rules seemed to go out of the window within 2 races right after that meeting though.

Checkpoint at San Felipe, someone's Helo came (landed) in right next to the course. Also within a 1/4 mile of said checkpoint. Honestly, with no disrespect intended this thread is useless. Until, someone gets hurt or killed.
 

redline

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Yeah, what he said...... i highly doubt they are out kicking up dust for a pro truck of all things.....but I guess, some people always want to look for reasons they could have done better maybe....??

Not looking for reasons why we got third. We had our own issues that caused our position but this could have caused us to have had something much worse along with anybody else that this happened to. Its not like they were really even running good at the time. This happened from about mile 43ish to the hill climb right before 55.
 

dan200

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hammer down racing

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Well the filming answer could get thrown out real quick. How good of a shot could you get follwing the TT in the dust? This kind of stuff happens all the time and the people that get called out for it are told they are crazy. The same thing is happening this time.

This past year in Parker I got buzzed by Robby's helicopter on the goat trail in my 1600. I was cruising along and his chopper flew right next to me about 30 ft off the ground and then went ahead of me sideways at the same hieght for a little bit. I'm glad he did it though because he was warning me that someone was coming a whole hell of a lot faster than I was. Helicopters can be used to help and often are but some guys do abuse thier privilidge.
 

Code3

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Let me start out by saying if I had a helo I would use it. I was at race mile 246, when the first few TTs came through some of thier helos were flying so low that we could barely see them through the bushes. My buddy took video and we couldnt beleive how low they were. The TTs were trying to pass some slow bikes and quads at that point, the helos would fly forward and warn the bikes and quads. I think that is good for safety but bad for competition because what if you dont have a helo to clear your way?
 

LukeMcMillin83

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Wow, but doesn't make sense at all to be trying to hold off a pro truck? I know whenever we rent/use helicopter it is primarily for safety, not even only for our cars but we would be willing to help anyone out. It would be a bummer to see any promoter take away helicopter use for all teams because of cheating.
 

OffroadExit

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I agree copters should be used for safety. There is however no reason to kick up dust and block other race cars. As stated before VW had many journalists from around the world and they may have been flying low for shots. With advancements in technology you can mount external remote controlled cameras on the outside of your helicopter and dont need to fly 30feet off the roof the race car. Newschoppers pick up people picking their nose and snorting meth off their steering wheels from a regulated 3,000 feet during pursuits. Even the police choppers fly above 500 feet.
 

dirty1s

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Perfect maybe VW knows who to contact now about flying to low and dusting since they seem to be part of the VW team. That could be 1 of the 2 that was doing it.

this isnt directed at any one person, the above post from another thread just put me over the top. no one seems to want to say this so i will. stop crying and whining. this isnt the first time a chopper has flown too low at a race, nor will it be the last. we all know this. offroad racing involves silt, mud, dirt and dust, get over it. if you dont like to get dirty, dont participate. we also all know that no one is going to be repremanded for the incident, so if you dont like the way score handles these situations, once again, dont participate. this is a hobby, if you come to the races and dont have fun, stop coming. if anyone thinks the choppers flying low was done on purpose to dust someone out, especially someone racing in another class, you need your head examined. knowingly putting someone in harms way isnt worth a victory to anyone. vw's goal for this race was to finish, not to podium, or win, just to finish. they wouldnt have cared if they finished dead last. they accomplished their goal, they finished. my hats off to vw, they are a world class team with world class equipment. they finished their first race with a brand new race car, at a very tough baja1000. that is to be commended.

its amazing how few people see the benefits vw brings to our sport. vw and redbull have tons of money to spend anywhere they want, and the bigwigs from their respective companies have chosen our sport to dump a huge amount money into. when is the last time a major auto manufacturer put anywhere near this amount of money into this sport? gm in 2000 with the trailblazers? they ran two races and that was it. vw is here for the longhaul, like it or not. and im not going to appologize for the tirade.
 

broncobaha

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this isnt directed at any one person, the above post from another thread just put me over the top. No one seems to want to say this so i will. Stop crying and whining. This isnt the first time a chopper has flown too low at a race, nor will it be the last. We all know this. Offroad racing involves silt, mud, dirt and dust, get over it. If you dont like to get dirty, dont participate. We also all know that no one is going to be repremanded for the incident, so if you dont like the way score handles these situations, once again, dont participate. This is a hobby, if you come to the races and dont have fun, stop coming. If anyone thinks the choppers flying low was done on purpose to dust someone out, especially someone racing in another class, you need your head examined. Knowingly putting someone in harms way isnt worth a victory to anyone. Vw's goal for this race was to finish, not to podium, or win, just to finish. They wouldnt have cared if they finished dead last. They accomplished their goal, they finished. My hats off to vw, they are a world class team with world class equipment. They finished their first race with a brand new race car, at a very tough baja1000. That is to be commended.

Its amazing how few people see the benefits vw brings to our sport. Vw and redbull have tons of money to spend anywhere they want, and the bigwigs from their respective companies have chosen our sport to dump a huge amount money into. When is the last time a major auto manufacturer put anywhere near this amount of money into this sport? Gm in 2000 with the trailblazers? They ran two races and that was it. Vw is here for the longhaul, like it or not. And im not going to appologize for the tirade.

Could not have said it better myself! Thank you!
 
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