Class 10 only

E.Hagle

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2020
Posts
505
RDC Crypto
858
Location
Somis, CA
we always set ours up toe’d in 1/8th of an inch
So I started to take measurements today and quickly realized that the only great consistent point to take measurements from would be the rotors with the calipers off. Going all the way out to tread is inconsistent unless you have fresh rubber and even then there is plenty of room for error. Then my brain really started to think that I could never formulate an equation to match the growth going from the diameter of the rotor to the tire. 1/16” at the rotor might equal 1/2” at the tire. I hope you guys are following what I’m saying.

I have an acquaintance who does alignments in the next town over and I’ll have to lean on him for some wisdom.
 

GBRACER

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 12, 2004
Posts
539
RDC Crypto
443
Location
Vancouver BC
scribe a line around the outside of the tire, you really need to take these measurements at ride height as a lot of cars will change at full droop,
 

swiftracing5

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2006
Posts
2,675
RDC Crypto
2,254
Location
Costa Mesa
The poor mans(cheap, me) way- assuming your rear arms are set close to neutral toe, use a string and wrap around the whole car tight around the middle of the tire. This will give you a straight line from the back tires to the front. You can find neutral toe easily, figure out what each turn of the tie rod does to the toe and adjust in accordingly.
 

Robin Hood

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2007
Posts
1,485
RDC Crypto
1,455
Location
Tucson, AZ
So I started to take measurements today and quickly realized that the only great consistent point to take measurements from would be the rotors with the calipers off. Going all the way out to tread is inconsistent unless you have fresh rubber and even then there is plenty of room for error. Then my brain really started to think that I could never formulate an equation to match the growth going from the diameter of the rotor to the tire. 1/16” at the rotor might equal 1/2” at the tire. I hope you guys are following what I’m saying.

I have an acquaintance who does alignments in the next town over and I’ll have to lean on him for some wisdom.

Get a piece of hardwood and cut it square the size of the tire diameter, (1) per side. Clamp (1) each to the outside of both tires and measure front and back. If you want to use them for different size tires, then make them big and use notches at the bottom for differant size diameters to hook the tape at the front and rear and pull thru the notch on the other side. Easier if you use two tape measures and have someone hold them tight and read, as you adjust and tighten the tie rods.
 

E.Hagle

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2020
Posts
505
RDC Crypto
858
Location
Somis, CA
How many of you guys do your own prep? Curious as to what everyone saves and how much time it really takes. We’ve been happy with going to Alumicraft for our preps but the bills add up. We’ve got a decent shop with some intermediate level tooling, we’d be staying away from any major tube work. Taking trans to a trans guy, shocks to shock guy, etc.

I’m looking for someone to tell me I’m naive for thinking that it’s doable with a two man crew in a garage in 100-120 man hours.
 
Joined
Jul 21, 2020
Posts
17
RDC Crypto
67
Location
Wilton, CA
Ethan, The advice above is all good, just my thoughts on it- For a desert car measuring toe-in from the widest part of the tire (sidewall bulge) would be accurate enough. One person holds the end of the tape measure against the inside bulge on the front of one sides tire while you butt the back of the tape measure against the bulge on the front of the other sides tire. Take the reading right where the tape comes out of the case. Then measure at the back of the tire and compare. 0" to 1/8" toe-in at ride height is probably best. Do this front and rear and then check alignment rear to front (see below).

The toe plates by Ebbco (my brother) mentioned above are great and make it easier and more accurate. I started racing shortcourse a year ago and have gotten way more involved in toe-in, toe-out, caster, camber, split caster and alignment than I ever did just racing desert. It's been fun to play with, but very thankful for my brother's advice and again not as critical in the desert.

In a desert car you can be off a decent amount and not be able to feel it unless you are on pavement. I always strive to get toe-in and alignment right, but thought it was important to share that you probably won't feel the difference unless it was off by a lot.

The toe plates make it easier to check alignment also, but without them you can run string from the bulge at the midpoint of the back of the rear tire to the bulge at the front and see where that hits the front tires on the left and right sides of the car. This will tell you if the rear is aligned to the front.

Another item that might make it feel better at speed in the rough is the torsion bar size in the power steering control valve. Going with a bigger torsion bar may make it track straighter by requiring more input effort to initiate a turn (talk to your power steering guy for a recommendation).

Message me if you want to go over any of it. I have been doing this for years, but hearing the advice from others is always good.

-Dale
 

SanoDano

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2005
Posts
165
RDC Crypto
61
Location
Encinitas, Ca
How many of you guys do your own prep? Curious as to what everyone saves and how much time it really takes. We’ve been happy with going to Alumicraft for our preps but the bills add up. We’ve got a decent shop with some intermediate level tooling, we’d be staying away from any major tube work. Taking trans to a trans guy, shocks to shock guy, etc.

I’m looking for someone to tell me I’m naive for thinking that it’s doable with a two man crew in a garage in 100-120 man hours.
I do all our prep for our 10 car, like you, the shoxs, trans and motor go out to be serviced. In addition the front end comes apart every race to check the spindles, rack, hiems, tie rods, bearnings, etc. All the hiems are replace every other race. In addition the front & rear arms are touched up with paint and of coarse a good cleaning.
All drive components (CVs, axle, hubs, bearing, etc) are cleaned and crack checked every race and replaced as needed.
Any fab work/welding is done by someone that lives close to me.

By myself, usually spend 150 +/- hours to prep the car
 

Robin Hood

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2007
Posts
1,485
RDC Crypto
1,455
Location
Tucson, AZ
How many of you guys do your own prep? Curious as to what everyone saves and how much time it really takes. We’ve been happy with going to Alumicraft for our preps but the bills add up. We’ve got a decent shop with some intermediate level tooling, we’d be staying away from any major tube work. Taking trans to a trans guy, shocks to shock guy, etc.

I’m looking for someone to tell me I’m naive for thinking that it’s doable with a two man crew in a garage in 100-120 man hours.
It really depends on your character and how attenitive you are to detail. I don't think it should take 100 to 120 man hours. When I raced class 10 I had a single seat Jimco, Major Honda and Fortin package. I did all the prep myself with no help. I can't recall a single DNF from a prep issue.I would send the motor and trans out and any fabrication I took back to Jimco. I couldn't afford to race if I had to pay someone else to prep. It doesn't take a lot of fancy tools and if you can afford to pay to have someone prep it for you, it won't be an issue to pick up any other tools you might need. It is easily doable for a young lad that can work all day and spend the evening and weekends in the garage.
 

McCredie A

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2008
Posts
836
RDC Crypto
445
Location
Vista or Hemet, Ca
I would think Alumicraft send most parts out to vendors to be rebuilt. Do they do shocks or other items in house? Do you know what they are outsourcing and who they are outsourcing to? If you have that knowledge it would seem to make the switch to in house easier.
 

43mod

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2008
Posts
4,381
RDC Crypto
3,965
Location
colusa california
Jack tires off the ground . Spin tire . Use jack stand or block to support large flat screw driver . Gently scribe a line in the tread of the tire . Does not matter if its perfectly centered . Reset car to ride level and measure lines to find toe . Roll car after every adjustment . Throw away plates,lazers ,strings etc for this job . String is still great for squaring the car of course .
 

Zac Reish

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2008
Posts
3,086
RDC Crypto
3,084
Location
riverside CA
I'd start with doing the shocks. Shocks are easy and people charge an arm and a leg to work on them. Get good at this part and take on another portion. You've be amazed at how far you can get with a grinder and a welder. I've been doing this since I was a teenager. I'm no genius and I'm not rich so learning just about everything except trans rebuild and engine rebuilds has helped immensely. I do steel fab, welding, tube replacement, skid plates, just about anything that makes sense to tackle. None of it looks pretty but all of it gets the job done. I take the harder stuff like redoing aluminum body panels and technical repairs to the pros. In the end it all gets thrashed anyway so I've learned to care very little about the aesthetic. Thats what body panels and paint are there to cover.
 

SMS81

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2008
Posts
363
RDC Crypto
448
Location
CA
How often are you guys sending your transaxles out to the builders? I had a guy tell me you need to do it every race regardless of there being any issues. That seems excessive to me though I have no doubt there are those who do. I’m running a sequential 5spd mendeola, thx
 

ICR Racing 1044

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2013
Posts
194
RDC Crypto
195
Location
Tucson, Arizona
How often are you guys sending your transaxles out to the builders? I had a guy tell me you need to do it every race regardless of there being any issues. That seems excessive to me though I have no doubt there are those who do. I’m running a sequential 5spd mendeola, thx
that's absolutely excessive
 

Zac Reish

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2008
Posts
3,086
RDC Crypto
3,084
Location
riverside CA
How often are you guys sending your transaxles out to the builders? I had a guy tell me you need to do it every race regardless of there being any issues. That seems excessive to me though I have no doubt there are those who do. I’m running a sequential 5spd mendeola, thx



Every 500 race miles is not unreasonable. The tough part is the parts that have 2-3000 miles running in the trans, getting inspected/look good can fail within 500 Miles between a rebuild. A crack can develop in an instant but how many miles can it last before failure.
 

drofmij

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2014
Posts
294
RDC Crypto
300
Location
Parker Dam
How many of you guys do your own prep? Curious as to what everyone saves and how much time it really takes. We’ve been happy with going to Alumicraft for our preps but the bills add up. We’ve got a decent shop with some intermediate level tooling, we’d be staying away from any major tube work. Taking trans to a trans guy, shocks to shock guy, etc.

I’m looking for someone to tell me I’m naive for thinking that it’s doable with a two man crew in a garage in 100-120 man hours.

It’s doable, I do all my own prep . I do my shocks also. It’s not that hard. It is a lot of work tho. Problem with paying someone to prep your car , is it’s their reputation on the line on your open checkbook. Most of your prep will depend on how hard you are on the car.
 

drofmij

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2014
Posts
294
RDC Crypto
300
Location
Parker Dam
How often are you guys sending your transaxles out to the builders? I had a guy tell me you need to do it every race regardless of there being any issues. That seems excessive to me though I have no doubt there are those who do. I’m running a sequential 5spd mendeola, thx

What trans? A lot depends on the trans you are running and your driving style. If your hard on the trans. Every race is not excessive. If you can’t get 1000 miles out of a r&p you probably need to do it more often. Rule of thumb would be every 1000 miles. If you race the 1000 your going to need it make 1000 miles
 

E.Hagle

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2020
Posts
505
RDC Crypto
858
Location
Somis, CA
How often are you guys sending your transaxles out to the builders? I had a guy tell me you need to do it every race regardless of there being any issues. That seems excessive to me though I have no doubt there are those who do. I’m running a sequential 5spd mendeola, thx
The cost to send out your trans every race is minimal in comparison to what it costs you to get down to Baja. It’s a fraction of signups housing fuel etc. We have ours checked out every single race. We’ve had one gear that needed to be replaced and that’s it in a few thousand miles. It hadn’t failed yet but if it had, who knows what the repair would have required.
 

Viola1685

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2014
Posts
156
RDC Crypto
154
Location
Las Vegas
Here’s a question for you fellow class 10 racers. Who runs e85 and what are you seeing in differences, wear on the motor, gas mileage, power differences? Can that sane power gap be bridged by running like say vp110 or a higher octane?
 
Top