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Class 12 /1100/ SCORE Lites ONLY Thread

M.Harvey1600

Well-Known Member

Andy4

Well-Known Member
You guys still pushing for rule changes or did that fizzle out already?


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frostbite36

Capt. Hindsight
I'm starting to lean more toward more CC's with same carbs, but how much is the right difference between single-seat and two seat? As I am seeing, 2276cc may not be enough difference from 2180cc. Are we pulling numbers out of our butts? How can we trust that the final numbers will be equitable? What formula are we using here? The last formula for low compression was a little under-powered compared to high-compression/plenum and the single-seaters almost always seem to have a weight advantage...

Do we still want to retain the "stock end casting with any mods for low compression?"

Can we weigh cars after a few REAL races (AVG single vs AVG two-seat) and get an average weight difference which can drive the CC difference ratio? How did we come up with the 1835 vs 1776 difference in the first place??

I'm gonna cry inside a little when I have to toss my custom crank-shaft on the shelf when and if we make a change. ;( On a positive note, I have an 82mm 4130 race crank and 5.5" Race Rods just sitting on the shelf already!!! :)
 

WALSHMOTORSPORTS

Well-Known Member
Benny, don’t worry to much about the end castings “any modifications allowed” rule. Honestly I’ve cut, welded, reshaped, rewelded and so on. The gains, if any, are incredibly small. It’s just fun to tinker around I think. With the 9:1 and Venturi restriction that’s were noticeable gains can be made.
The average car weight issue. That’s a tough one for me too. I know my car was put on the scales just before completing it and I want to say it was over 2300 lbs. (2 seater) I will scale my car again as soon as I can.
The “fudging” factor on real car weight is my concern.
The cc increase would be great, I do have a bit of concern over the spread as well. I’ve been told by more than 1 single seat it weighs in well under 2000 lbs and will run over 100mph.
I believe I have a decent, new 2 seat 12 car with a 5 speed and a fairly competitive engine package it it hit 93 rung out on a hard packed road while holding my breath. Yes there is a lot of factors in there I also worked with Folts and Weddle on my gear stack so it’s not in left field.
Just my opinion it sounds to me that the weight spread is around 400-500 lbs unless the single seat guys that I’ve spoken to are telling little white lies. Lol.
Really my 2 cents I would like to see a tad more of a spread to even out the acceleration factor more than the top speed.
Either way, more cc’s would be great!
 

Zac Reish

Well-Known Member
Most people have not weighed their cars. Ive had well known class 5 guys tell me their cars weigh in at 2000 lbs when my cars light and its over 2,500 lbs. People guess and people believe. I think you're car being 2,300 lbs is light. The brady wisdom single seat 12 car was said to weigh 2500 lbs. I can see the red lothringer archibald races at 2,000 lbs. Shouldn't the single seat have a speed advantage as they're at a disadvantage not having a navigator? If they were the same speed why would you race a ss? Just a question.
 

RYAN COHEE

Well-Known Member
If you take the 34 Venturi rule and make it 36 the one the carb came with new the performance difference is noticeable for sure. I say we change that rule or go with a 48 carb. Keep the engine rule the same as it stands now, remember if you make the engine larger and keep the carb rule the same what is the point.
Snore rule states
Weber 44IDF & EMPI HPMX 44 carburetor only allowed Maximum venturi size is 34mm

I have ran my motor with the bigger Venturi and its a way better power range. Don't worry about the high compression motors they are not that fast! The cars that run rage at the river and Bap with that motor combo are too light for real desert racing and wont make a 250 mile plus race. 1550 is class min weight I am 450 over that and can run with them with a 4 speed.
 
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RYAN COHEE

Well-Known Member
Most people have not weighed their cars. Ive had well known class 5 guys tell me their cars weigh in at 2000 lbs when my cars light and its over 2,500 lbs. People guess and people believe. I think you're car being 2,300 lbs is light. The brady wisdom single seat 12 car was said to weigh 2500 lbs. I can see the red lothringer archibald races at 2,000 lbs. Shouldn't the single seat have a speed advantage as they're at a disadvantage not having a navigator? If they were the same speed why would you race a ss? Just a question.
Your wrong about the red Archibald single seat 12 car weight I was 50 seconds behind him the first day at Bap and watched them put him on the scales he was just over 1550 min weight.
 

RYAN COHEE

Well-Known Member
Benny, don’t worry to much about the end castings “any modifications allowed” rule. Honestly I’ve cut, welded, reshaped, rewelded and so on. The gains, if any, are incredibly small. It’s just fun to tinker around I think. With the 9:1 and Venturi restriction that’s were noticeable gains can be made.
The average car weight issue. That’s a tough one for me too. I know my car was put on the scales just before completing it and I want to say it was over 2300 lbs. (2 seater) I will scale my car again as soon as I can.
The “fudging” factor on real car weight is my concern.
The cc increase would be great, I do have a bit of concern over the spread as well. I’ve been told by more than 1 single seat it weighs in well under 2000 lbs and will run over 100mph.
I believe I have a decent, new 2 seat 12 car with a 5 speed and a fairly competitive engine package it it hit 93 rung out on a hard packed road while holding my breath. Yes there is a lot of factors in there I also worked with Folts and Weddle on my gear stack so it’s not in left field.
Just my opinion it sounds to me that the weight spread is around 400-500 lbs unless the single seat guys that I’ve spoken to are telling little white lies. Lol.
Really my 2 cents I would like to see a tad more of a spread to even out the acceleration factor more than the top speed.
Either way, more cc’s would be great!
Some one might have enough gear to run 100 mph on a really long lake bed but lets think about this how many times do you run flat out top gear for long enough to use that mph. I would rather have the gear stack in the midrange area
 

CFreeLV

Well-Known Member
Both cars below had 5 speed Folts mendi's and Wik's plenums and the SS was noticeably faster. Weight difference with seats filled was 460lbs. Top speed on asphalt for 2 seat was 98mph. SS went 106.
IMG_1310.PNG
TIMG_1311.PNG
 

Rich Roberts

Well-Known Member
I estimated 500. Wonder what the weight is on the 2 seater of Freemans? I know the old Chenoweth I raced with Martensen was 2460 with no driver and only 10 gallons of fuel. I am going to weigh my new car when I get back from Baja and will post.
 

CFreeLV

Well-Known Member
The 2 seater weighed 2100 lbs dry.

I estimated 500. Wonder what the weight is on the 2 seater of Freemans? I know the old Chenoweth I raced with Martensen was 2460 with no driver and only 10 gallons of fuel. I am going to weigh my new car when I get back from Baja and will post.

Archibald got a helluva car. My brother put every ounce of energy he had into building that car along with hundreds of hours testing and tuning to get it dialed. That was his kid before he had kids.

The top car which was my old car has a new owner as of yesterday!
 

WALSHMOTORSPORTS

Well-Known Member
For what it’s worth I really believe the 9:1 is helping the class slowly but surely. That’s right so far 20 class 12 entries for the Baja 500! Oh.....and only 10 1600 cars.
 
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