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Class 12 /1100/ SCORE Lites ONLY Thread

RYAN COHEE

Well-Known Member
#41
Thanks Ryan...what is ur next race?? I was bummed we didn't hang out a bit more at Lucern...
Traci is driving a Lothringer 4 seater V-6 car at the PP race in two weeks..1377 call me if your going..
 

frostbite36

Capt. Hindsight
#46
No, that is a full floater outer set-up.
Thanks Bro_Gill...that's why I put the question mark. That also explains why he is able to get so much down articulation on this rear geometry!

Lee Banning 2011 B1K Winner.JPG

Here is a Pic of last year's B1K class-12 winner... Who is racing and who is "HOT" or "favored" to win SCORE Lites at this year's race??? I know Parkhouse won class-12 Baja 500 this year...who won 2012 San Felipe??
 

Rick 1634

Well-Known Member
#47
Thanks Bro_Gill...that's why I put the question mark. That also explains why he is able to get so much down articulation on this rear geometry!
I use the same outboard CV setup on my Lothringer. Work's great, super reliable and the cv's wear far less than the conventional inboard set up.
 

hotdogwater

Well-Known Member
#48
I use the same outboard CV setup on my Lothringer. Work's great, super reliable and the cv's wear far less than the conventional inboard set up.
So I have old Summer Brothers outboard hub setup on my 12 car (older Bunderson chassis with some refreshes) but can't find parts for it or they cost $$$. The bearings are $200 ea x2 per wheel + 100 per bearing race is about a grand to refresh the rear end. I can't find one of the giant nuts that hold the hub on and don't want to spend $$$ on refresh to have more/different issues so I think I can cutting my outboard stuff off and going to mid-board. http://www.race-dezert.com/forum/showthread.php/100904-Buggy-Trailing-Arm-conversion

So any thoughts on CNC or SACO stuff for hubs? Do you have to run Pro Am to survive the C12 punishment?
 

frostbite36

Capt. Hindsight
#49
I use the same outboard CV setup on my Lothringer. Work's great, super reliable and the cv's wear far less than the conventional inboard set up.
"Richard Madison brings entry # 1104 to finish line...winning 1st place in class 1100 at the 2012 Best In The Desert Parker 425."

Rich, congrats on the Parker win earlier this year!! Are you guys running a T-1 or the BITD Ford package?? What do you think about the Ford/1100 BITD deal in general and BITD's slowness to bring on the low-compression option in their series?
 

jim_moulton

Well-Known Member
#50
Thanks Bro_Gill...that's why I put the question mark. That also explains why he is able to get so much down articulation on this rear geometry!

View attachment 122641

Here is a Pic of last year's B1K class-12 winner... Who is racing and who is "HOT" or "favored" to win SCORE Lites at this year's race??? I know Parkhouse won class-12 Baja 500 this year...who won 2012 San Felipe??
Team Parkhouse FTW!
 

Rick 1634

Well-Known Member
#51
So I have old Summer Brothers outboard hub setup on my 12 car (older Bunderson chassis with some refreshes) but can't find parts for it or they cost $$$. The bearings are $200 ea x2 per wheel + 100 per bearing race is about a grand to refresh the rear end. I can't find one of the giant nuts that hold the hub on and don't want to spend $$$ on refresh to have more/different issues so I think I can cutting my outboard stuff off and going to mid-board. http://www.race-dezert.com/forum/showthread.php/100904-Buggy-Trailing-Arm-conversion

So any thoughts on CNC or SACO stuff for hubs? Do you have to run Pro Am to survive the C12 punishment?
First choice would be to keep the outboard set up. The bearings are expensive, but most auto parts house's carry Timken and can order the LL420549 bearing for about $185. A good machine could shop could make a nut, calling Sommers Bros. would be easier.
 

Rick 1634

Well-Known Member
#52
"Rich, congrats on the Parker win earlier this year!! Are you guys running a T-1 or the BITD Ford package?? What do you think about the Ford/1100 BITD deal in general and BITD's slowness to bring on the low-compression option in their series?
I run a t-1, 1776 Wik's dry sump engine, not planning on switching to Ford or the new t-1 low compression package. Casey is a great guy and respect what he has done for our sport, however I do not agree with the descision to bring the Ford engine into class 1100. Ford was BITD's solution to bring factory dollars in to help support the class, so I doubt BITD is going to allow the new t-1 package anytime soon.
 

Zac Reish

Well-Known Member
#53
I run a t-1, 1776 Wik's dry sump engine, not planning on switching to Ford or the new t-1 low compression package. Casey is a great guy and respect what he has done for our sport, however I do not agree with the descision to bring the Ford engine into class 1100. Ford was BITD's solution to bring factory dollars in to help support the class, so I doubt BITD is going to allow the new t-1 package anytime soon.
The fact that he refuses the allowance of this engine package is a bad business decision. It doesn't add business to ford or take it away. He is simply losing money by not allowing them. SCORE Makes stupid decisions as well. On the contrary, I have to ask my self the question though. Am I or we the stupid ones for disagreeing with the decisions of the largest desert racing organizations?
 

Fourstroker

Well-Known Member
#55
So I have old Summer Brothers outboard hub setup on my 12 car (older Bunderson chassis with some refreshes) but can't find parts for it or they cost $$$. The bearings are $200 ea x2 per wheel + 100 per bearing race is about a grand to refresh the rear end. I can't find one of the giant nuts that hold the hub on and don't want to spend $$$ on refresh to have more/different issues so I think I can cutting my outboard stuff off and going to mid-board. http://www.race-dezert.com/forum/showthread.php/100904-Buggy-Trailing-Arm-conversion

So any thoughts on CNC or SACO stuff for hubs? Do you have to run Pro Am to survive the C12 punishment?
Your answer to the last question is yes and no. The Proam stuff is nice for sure. I have run the Tatum Midboards on my car for over 4 years without issue. I have only has to do bearing s and races once and they are way less than the outboard ones. My seater has the same Tatum hubs on them and is still on the original set after 6 years and over 10000 desert miles.
 

jim_moulton

Well-Known Member
#56
So I have old Summer Brothers outboard hub setup on my 12 car (older Bunderson chassis with some refreshes) but can't find parts for it or they cost $$$. The bearings are $200 ea x2 per wheel + 100 per bearing race is about a grand to refresh the rear end. I can't find one of the giant nuts that hold the hub on and don't want to spend $$$ on refresh to have more/different issues so I think I can cutting my outboard stuff off and going to mid-board. http://www.race-dezert.com/forum/showthread.php/100904-Buggy-Trailing-Arm-conversion

So any thoughts on CNC or SACO stuff for hubs? Do you have to run Pro Am to survive the C12 punishment?
McKenzies cloned the summers bros hubs and have parts that I believe are interchangeable. Not sure on the price but its worth a phone call.
 

Dirtman

Well-Known Member
#57
The 15+ year old 10 car definitely works great at speed. And yep, broke another axle. That was the fourth axle in 6 races and only had the two Primm races earlier this year on this set, about 300 race miles. So I'm currently ponying up the $3K for 934s and gun drilled axles. I really didn't want to have to spin the extra weight but the little axles just have not survived since we put in the Jiminez plenum motor. Hopefully I'll have a reliable car with the bigger axles. And this car also has what I think are the original Summers hubs. Bearings are expensive I agree but otherwise good hubs. Haven't had any bearings wear out, I just didn't get the water out after Mexico races and they pitted. And like Jim stated, McKenzies does have all the replacement parts.

Speaking of motors, I've heard lots of nasty comments about the plenum motors. I'll have to say my experience has been opposite of most comments. Since having George Jiminez build the motor, we have run a number or races and put about 1800 race miles on it before having it serviced the first time. Although we did go deep and do a full rebuild, it was just the usual bearings and rings so not that expensive. The motor definitely pulls hard as I'm sure some can attest to. And believe it or not the car weighs in around 2400 lbs so is a pretty heavy fella, even compared to most two seaters. There has been lots of discussions of optional motors for cost savings/reliability reasons. Although I'm not necessarily strongly opposed, there is a caveat. I would hope the trend for the low cost motor options is not to keep increasing the power of the "options" to the point that it turns my plenum into an obsolete hunk. Having to purchase a new motor or convert to water cooled would keep me out for a while. Rule changes that cause cars or significant components to become obsolete is a class killer. We saw it happen in the early part of the last decade when we went from getting 50-70 1600 cars to the Pro 1600 races to the 20's in a couple of years. Rules kept everyone spending money every year as new things became legal, completely non-stock boxed trailing arms, then micro stubs, disk brakes, etc. If you couldn't keep up with the newest rule change for "safety and reliability", you got left behind. I saw a lot of guys just give up and park the cars. Really need to stop with rule changes and everyone just keep running what we got and have some fun. It's great when a 15 year old car can still be competitive.

Anyone interested in picking a couple races next year to try and push the 12 car count? Sure would be nice to get back into the 20's or higher. We don't have to call it Pro 12, but a small amount of organization could make for some big fun races. Give me a PM if you are interested and I'll see if I can do a little inquiring and organizing.
 

frostbite36

Capt. Hindsight
#58
We will be at the snore 250 w/ a t-1 1776 also have a 2 liter low comp. motor,ran it at ridgecrest . worked really well. Here is a picture of our car
What happened to you at Ridgecrest? You were way ahead and then saw you guys sitting broke. I love your setup and if you ever wanted to sell, you'd better let me know...or if you wanted to move over to a 2 seater. I'm kinda getting tired of co-drivers "dying" on me...LOL!!

I also finished the new upper shock mounts on our buggy...pics attached.

I wish I could find a used Mid or out-board hub setup, we just re-did out rear end by upgrading to 3.0 Race series King bypasses and re-doing the upper mounts. Wish I had the cash to upgrade from our conventional stub-axle setup now...gotta wait.

Rear shock mount.jpg
 

frostbite36

Capt. Hindsight
#59
The 15+ year old 10 car definitely works great at speed. And yep, broke another axle. That was the fourth axle in 6 races and only had the two Primm races earlier this year on this set, about 300 race miles. So I'm currently ponying up the $3K for 934s and gun drilled axles. I really didn't want to have to spin the extra weight but the little axles just have not survived since we put in the Jiminez plenum motor. Hopefully I'll have a reliable car with the bigger axles. And this car also has what I think are the original Summers hubs. Bearings are expensive I agree but otherwise good hubs. Haven't had any bearings wear out, I just didn't get the water out after Mexico races and they pitted. And like Jim stated, McKenzies does have all the replacement parts.

Speaking of motors, I've heard lots of nasty comments about the plenum motors. I'll have to say my experience has been opposite of most comments. Since having George Jiminez build the motor, we have run a number or races and put about 1800 race miles on it before having it serviced the first time. Although we did go deep and do a full rebuild, it was just the usual bearings and rings so not that expensive. The motor definitely pulls hard as I'm sure some can attest to. And believe it or not the car weighs in around 2400 lbs so is a pretty heavy fella, even compared to most two seaters. There has been lots of discussions of optional motors for cost savings/reliability reasons. Although I'm not necessarily strongly opposed, there is a caveat. I would hope the trend for the low cost motor options is not to keep increasing the power of the "options" to the point that it turns my plenum into an obsolete hunk. Having to purchase a new motor or convert to water cooled would keep me out for a while. Rule changes that cause cars or significant components to become obsolete is a class killer. We saw it happen in the early part of the last decade when we went from getting 50-70 1600 cars to the Pro 1600 races to the 20's in a couple of years. Rules kept everyone spending money every year as new things became legal, completely non-stock boxed trailing arms, then micro stubs, disk brakes, etc. If you couldn't keep up with the newest rule change for "safety and reliability", you got left behind. I saw a lot of guys just give up and park the cars. Really need to stop with rule changes and everyone just keep running what we got and have some fun. It's great when a 15 year old car can still be competitive.

Anyone interested in picking a couple races next year to try and push the 12 car count? Sure would be nice to get back into the 20's or higher. We don't have to call it Pro 12, but a small amount of organization could make for some big fun races. Give me a PM if you are interested and I'll see if I can do a little inquiring and organizing.
Brady, you have been doing this, successfully, with the same car for such a long time! An impressive feat indeed. Your opinion will always carry a lot of weight. I agree completely that we are where we need to be right now with the class specs. The new air-cooled option is less expensive and effective, yet doesn't make the high-compression motors obsolete. I fore-see growth in the class that you obviously love...largely due to this new motor. As far as water cooled is concerned, there is just no place for it in class-12...IMHO.

I'd really love to hear some ideas on grinding down BITD in reference to allowing the low-compression motors into class-1100...
 

johnnyb985

Well-Known Member
#60
We broke the center adjuster out of the car (the car is 20 years old !!) now we installed a king kong adjuster and new chromoly tubing. tested in barstow last week should be ready for primm .
 
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