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Class 5 only

JRV 511

Well-Known Member
#41
They changed that rule for this year, now it has to be VW. I asked them about that, and they told me no, my Subaru engine wasn't legal anymore.
Its a shame , we tried to get other engine options years ago but a couple of 5 guys had a cow , and put a hex on the whole idea.

I make as much ponys as anyone in the class , my motor is around 3062 cc's with a Motec m48 injection system w/ expander to store data , BIG BUCKS but very reliable , It would buy a couple subarus
 

swiftracing5

Well-Known Member
#42
I support as well as disagree with a few things in this thread...
Coming from my point of view, which is racing a 5U that I built with my dad that has a pan, T1, 091, and full body...there is nothing really competitive about racing 5 anymore on our(normal) budget. We save money by racing SNORE and no one shows up, we aim to race BITD and everyone drives away from us. When VW got involved with SCORE a few years ago we got excited and had wondered if there would be any money put towards VW based classes but not so. So at the end of the day, we have a cool prerunner that turns heads and is fun to race a few times year, but the 25-50% of 5U guys that have over 100k in to their car will always win the trophies and any money on the line. For those of you in this category it seems that all the credibility from results that you brag about is when you beat other faster classes so it seems natural to enter in another class to have better competition? 5U is the coolest class and I will always have a soft spot for it, but keep it pure and if anything, I think the class is fine where it is. We didn't race 1 car at BAP but never have been more stoked about the trophy and my 5U... added a few pics, thanks for your time and LONG LIVE 5.
 

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rusco

Well-Known Member
#43
Would love to buy a big bore type 4 + weddle / Mendeola to handle power. Just don't have the dough. Love the idea of ecotechs in class 5 and combining class 5/3000. Coming from altitude with no motor program or support, it's a pain in the ass, to always re-jet at races. My tiny 2275cc single carb T1, pushes car pretty good but an affordable ecotech, would avoid many of the tuning and expense issues we have. IMO anything to raise entry #'s is a good idea.

Another idea: Have a seperate classes; 5U and 5L. Class 5U would be type 4 any trans and 5L would be type 1 (possibly single 44 weber or??) + 091. Run classes together but 5L slightly lower entry fee and or prize money. Think this would bring out a ton of moth-balled class 5's out there. Another reason for this is, most older class 5's were built w/ 1.5"x 095 and big type 4 with mende or fortin would make them well over 2000lbs and not SCORE legal. If anyone is interested in this 5L idea, PM me. Would be more than happy to "help" create rules and contact promoters/vendors etc.

Also: instead of 5 seperate series(SCORE,BITD,SNORE,MORE and HDRA), pick 1. OR, Pick 3-4 races and kick start the coalition. Bottom line, there is no money in this class. Thats why anyone competitive, jumps ship. More entry's cures much of this.
 

SILVERBULLET5

Well-Known Member
#44
I agree anything to raise numbers is a good idea.

Allowing ECOtechs to run Class 5U makes the most sense to me too, leave EVERYTHING else alone. Combining Class 5U and 3000 does NOT seem like a good idea. How do we go about allowing the ECOtechs? Suggestions.....

We do desperately need a COALITION. We had 10 entries at the MINT this year. We were hoping to see as many entries at the MORE 500, but right now we only have 5. Where did EVERYBODY GO???? Get your cars out and let's race the same races!!!!!

We should pick the races we are going to run for the year and stick to it. Everybody needs to know what races to plan for and ALL of us should go to the SAME races.

Here: I will start the list of cars commited to racing Class 5U and keeping the class alive: (ADD your car and anybody else you know of to the list)


#509 - Chris Lazenby
 

JRV 511

Well-Known Member
#45
Would love to buy a big bore type 4 + weddle / Mendeola to handle power. Just don't have the dough. Love the idea of ecotechs in class 5 and combining class 5/3000. Coming from altitude with no motor program or support, it's a pain in the ass, to always re-jet at races. My tiny 2275cc single carb T1, pushes car pretty good but an affordable ecotech, would avoid many of the tuning and expense issues we have. IMO anything to raise entry #'s is a good idea.

Another idea: Have a seperate classes; 5U and 5L. Class 5U would be type 4 any trans and 5L would be type 1 (possibly single 44 weber or??) + 091. Run classes together but 5L slightly lower entry fee and or prize money. Think this would bring out a ton of moth-balled class 5's out there. Another reason for this is, most older class 5's were built w/ 1.5"x 095 and big type 4 with mende or fortin would make them well over 2000lbs and not SCORE legal. If anyone is interested in this 5L idea, PM me. Would be more than happy to "help" create rules and contact promoters/vendors etc.

Also: instead of 5 seperate series(SCORE,BITD,SNORE,MORE and HDRA), pick 1. OR, Pick 3-4 races and kick start the coalition. Bottom line, there is no money in this class. Thats why anyone competitive, jumps ship. More entry's cures much of this.
Been there and done that ie. www.class5coalition.com Eric and I spent a small fortune to get all of the 5U to start racing together . I stood up in front of all of the 5U racers(in the Kartek showroom) and promised to race all seven events , which I did , no matter what it cost. It started with big car counts (13 or 16 at one race)and then teams started racing with their home racing series or the series where they performed well. It was a complete waste of time and money . Nobody did what they said they would do except a couple of us , myself , Drew Belk (was honest up front with the races he would run)and Eric Earnest (missed one race , not his fault). And the list was over 30 5 open cars with 19 teams present at the meeting .
 

JRV 511

Well-Known Member
#46
I agree anything to raise numbers is a good idea.

Allowing ECOtechs to run Class 5U makes the most sense to me too, leave EVERYTHING else alone. Combining Class 5U and 3000 does NOT seem like a good idea. How do we go about allowing the ECOtechs? Suggestions.....



#509 - Chris Lazenby
What about the guys that have the bigger cars , putting in an Ecotec would be like putting in a briggs and straton , I put more HP to the ground than an ecotec has at the flywheel, my 2 cents
 

SILVERBULLET5

Well-Known Member
#47
Jim,

We had just started racing when you guys started that coalition.

We had our 30 year old car and our type I, I think that coalition did make a difference and did keep the numbers up from where they would have been without it.

We'll always have teams coming and going from the class no matter what, that is just the way it is. At least if everyone is making an effort, it will be an improvement on what is happening now. Trying to guess where everybody is going to race is frustrating.

We're not ready to give up on the class! We just want more cars to race against.
 

Baja Jim

Well-Known Member
#48
You guys talk about how cheap an EcoTech is and i just don't get it? We bought our Type 4 for $7k and since we put it in our car it has been the cheapest engIne to run that I have ever had!!! Changing to EcoTech cost tons for fab radiators, coolers, transmission re gear, balance and set up. For 10 races our cost per race on type 4 has been $300 and that includes, plugs, clutch, wires, dyno everything. Why go Eco tech? Maybe we've been lucky
 

SILVERBULLET5

Well-Known Member
#49
I don't know of any other 5 cars that do 117. I've heard the ECOtecs work pretty well in the 5Us as well. Can anybody comment on this?

There are plenty of OTHER factors that contribute to a winning car as well. At some point the extra HP becomes a non issue in class 5U. In my opinion.

Do you ever plan on racing in 5U again, what would make you come back out? (You were the first person we met in the class when we started)
 

ksmith

Well-Known Member
#50
You guys talk about how cheap an EcoTech is and i just don't get it? We bought our Type 4 for $7k and since we put it in our car it has been the cheapest engIne to run that I have ever had!!! Changing to EcoTech cost tons for fab radiators, coolers, transmission re gear, balance and set up. For 10 races our cost per race on type 4 has been $300 and that includes, plugs, clutch, wires, dyno everything. Why go Eco tech? Maybe we've been lucky
7K for a Type 4 is very reasonable, but we spent about half that switching our car to the ecotec. That was motor(junkyard 30,000 mile), CBM computer and harness, adapter, clutch, radiator, fuel pump and regulator, power steering pulley. Everything.
Granted we did all of the fab work ourselves and we did have to respring the rear and revalve a little bit but the ecotec is not that much heavier. You'd be surprised.

The other HUGE factor for us as we are budget racers was the fuel. PUMP GAS RULES!!!! No need to buy the 110 for the type 4 anymore. That cuts the fuel bill at least in half:)

Oh and i don't know about down in cali but up here ecotecs are literally a dime a dozen. Our local junkyard had 10 under 30,000 miles $600-700 is about average for the 2.4L We checked comp and leak down on ours and checked out great! Ran it at the Vorra 24 HR Zero problems and 12MPG We'll see how it does this year.
 

rusco

Well-Known Member
#51
7K for a Type 4 is very reasonable, but we spent about half that switching our car to the ecotec. That was motor(junkyard 30,000 mile), CBM computer and harness, adapter, clutch, radiator, fuel pump and regulator, power steering pulley. Everything.
Granted we did all of the fab work ourselves and we did have to respring the rear and revalve a little bit but the ecotec is not that much heavier. You'd be surprised.

The other HUGE factor for us as we are budget racers was the fuel. PUMP GAS RULES!!!! No need to buy the 110 for the type 4 anymore. That cuts the fuel bill at least in half:)

Oh and i don't know about down in cali but up here ecotecs are literally a dime a dozen. Our local junkyard had 10 under 30,000 miles $600-700 is about average for the 2.4L We checked comp and leak down on ours and checked out great! Ran it at the Vorra 24 HR Zero problems and 12MPG We'll see how it does this year.

My thoughts exactly!

Jim what kind of $ did you have into your car. 7K for an type 4 is 3K less than any quotes I have. No matter what engine / series / etc. Racing is expensive. JRV 511 is correct / the Coalition is a waste of time. Ideas on how to rejuvinate this class, however are not.
 

ksmith

Well-Known Member
#52
What about the guys that have the bigger cars , putting in an Ecotec would be like putting in a briggs and straton , I put more HP to the ground than an ecotec has at the flywheel, my 2 cents
I'm not one to say a $2500 Ecotec is going to be competitive against your 25K rocket type 4. but it could be competitive against a smaller type 4 or type 1 It's all about a competitive motor that's affordable that's why we switched over
 

ksmith

Well-Known Member
#53
Ideas on rejuvenating the class are awesome! Between this thread and others over on desertrides.com it looks like there are at least a half dozen 5 unlimiteds with Ecotecs already. And all of these cars have been converted in the last year or so. If this trend keeps going we could start our own class:)
 

Wendell #527

Well-Known Member
#54
I personally vote for NO CHANGES. I built my 5 car because that's the class I wanted to race in. I respect all you guys, even if you want to change the class, but I'm 100% against changing it. I don't want to race 3000s, nor do I want to race class 12 or 8. If you combined class 12, 5, and 8 you'd get more numbers in your class too, but that doesn't make sense. Neither does putting 3000s with us or making us water cooled or allowing 6 cylinders. I want to race in class 5 with a 4cyl opposing cylinder air cooled motor. Old school stuff and that's why I like it. There are plenty of us, heck, we had 9 at the Mint!
 

Wendell #527

Well-Known Member
#55
I'm fine with that, start another spec class and have at it. Just leave Class 5 alone.
Ideas on rejuvenating the class are awesome! Between this thread and others over on desertrides.com it looks like there are at least a half dozen 5 unlimiteds with Ecotecs already. And all of these cars have been converted in the last year or so. If this trend keeps going we could start our own class:)
 

Baja Jim

Well-Known Member
#56
In the beginning Drews car and our car both ran 2332 type 1 engines and they both won races! A 2332 is competitive with a type 4 with right gear ratio. Drew and I changed because of cost, we thought type 4 cheaper and it is! Mile per hour was only about 3-5 slower just more shifting
 
#58
Im with Wendell the class should remain the same. Its a good idea for us to start behind the 3000 but dont combine the classes. In MORE we need to be able to start before the 1400s. For you guys that have ecotecs, run as a 3000 or go air cooled and join class 5
 

rusco

Well-Known Member
#59
Jim, I thought you sold your car? Are you moving to another class or? Curious what others think of how affordable a T4 can be. Steve Owe, weigh in on this. Good debate.
 
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